What was the prior designation of the Enterprise A?

[BillJ]

Also, again, Harve Bennett, Loughery, and Shatner had behind-the-scenes conversations to the effect that their general opinion was that the new Enterprise was indeed brand-new, and had just returned from its six-month shakedown cruise with Kirk and crew, as of the opening scenes of The Final Frontier.

Which also makes no sense considering the shape we see it in at the beginning of The Final Frontier. I'm suppose to believe they went six months without doors opening, computers operating correctly or the transporters working properly?

Like I said earlier, I tend to go with Shane Johnson's interpretation from Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise. The "A" was the renamed transwarp testbed ship USS Ti-Ho. Explains how they got to the center of the universe so quickly.

 

[Leto_II]

Although, for all we know, the whole system screwup-thing could've happened very late into the shakedown-cruise -- maybe a software update that the ship received at a starbase or something triggered the system-wide failure (per Data's description of the Enterprise-A's crash in TNG "Evolution"), and it was the reason the new Enterprise had to return to Spacedock for Scotty to effect repairs (Kirk giving him two, and ultimately three, weeks to do it).

That said, I've always had a soft spot for Shane Johnson's version too myself, and was pleased to see it referenced in David Goodman's recent Kirk "autobiography."

 

[BillJ]

Although, for all we know, the whole system screwup-thing could've happened very late into the shakedown-cruise -- maybe a software update that the ship received at a starbase or something triggered the system-wide failure (per Data's description of the Enterprise-A's crash in TNG "Evolution"), and it was the reason the new Enterprise had to return to Spacedock for Scotty to effect repairs (Kirk giving him two, and ultimately three, weeks to do it).

I could see a software error causing the doors to open and close erratically, not for them to be off the track like we see in the film. And why would a software error require physical fixing (we hear folks banging on stuff in the shuttle bay) and cause things like shorts in the control panels.

For a new build or rebuild, the Enterprise condition didn't make much sense for a ship in space six months. It also wouldn't make much sense to complain that it was "put together by monkeys" if the issues happened late in a six month shakedown cruise.

The script for The Final Frontier definitely needed a few more rewrites.

 

[Galileo7]

...The script for The Final Frontier definitely needed a few more rewrites.

Agree, the film would have been much better.

 

[Dukhat]

"Captain Vijay" looked and sounded like he were seven and a half breaths from death already, though. If his "high hopes" proved futile, I wouldn't bet on his crew's survival.

We don't know exactly how quickly a powerless starship becomes lethal to her crew. But "The Last Outpost" shows a much bigger ship simply freezing solid in six hours or so despite only having a power "drain" rather than "loss".

Here's the thing though: the Yorktown's captain stated that the ship had lost power only three hours before he sent his message. It is inconceivable that there weren't other ships out there that weren't affected by the probe that could have rescued the crew in that time. If the captain's SOS was picked up all the way from Earth, then it sure as heck was picked up by other ships.

 

[Timo]

As regards the ship being a total newbuild, there are the TOS-style colorful GNDN tubes belowdecks, and the TOS-shaped shuttlebay. Why would Starfleet install these "old" features aboard an all-new ship when there were corresponding "new" features aboard NCC-1701-nil after her mere refit?

It is inconceivable that there weren't other ships out there that weren't affected by the probe that could have rescued the crew in that time.

"Inconceivable", perhaps, but apparently true. Why else would the "we are putting on a brave face and taking desperation measures while dying" message be sent in the first place, three hours after the fact? Why not send for help immediately, if the theoretical possibility of help arriving did exist?

Ships not affected by the probe would supposedly either be ships unlikely to have the means/guts to go and rescue anybody (since they didn't go and intercept the probe) or ships heeding the President's orders to get the hell out of Dodge.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

Why not send for help immediately, if the theoretical possibility of help arriving did exist?

How do you know that they didn't send for help immediately? Just because no rescue ship had arrived in the three hours they were disabled doesn't mean that there weren't any on the way.

Ships not affected by the probe would supposedly either be ships unlikely to have the means/guts to go and rescue anybody (since they didn't go and intercept the probe) or ships heeding the President's orders to get the hell out of Dodge.

No, the President told everyone to stay away from Earth, he didn't tell anyone not to go rescue ships that were disabled. Starfleet knew where the disabled ships were located. They just needed to contact ships that were fine and give them their coordinates. And what do ships not intercepting the probe have anything to do with whether they had the means to rescue anyone? A rescue is nothing more than one ship beaming survivors aboard. Any ship can do that.

The Bounty received the President's message just fine. It stands to reason that other ships did too. It also stands to reason that if the Yorktown was able to send a distress call all the way to Earth, then they could send it to ships that were closer and weren't affected by the probe.

But if you want to think that the Yorktown's crew all died, by all means go right ahead and think that.

 

[Shikarnov]

...per Data's description of the Enterprise-A's crash in TNG "Evolution"...

I may need to revisit this episode tonight, but off hand, I can't remember a single instance in TNG that mentioned the Enterprise-A. What did Data say?

 

[Timo]

He said "There has not been a systems-wide technological failure on a starship in 79 years". Since this episode takes place in late 2365 or thereabouts, the failure would be in 2286 or so, potentially relating to the TOS movies. But we never heard of a "systems-wide technological failure" in the movies. Unless one thinks the Excelsior stalling in ST3:TSfS was one of those.

"The E-A crash"? What is that?

How do you know that they didn't send for help immediately? Just because no rescue ship had arrived in the three hours they were disabled doesn't mean that there weren't any on the way.

True enough. But the apparent despair of the crew still means they'd have to wait for some time, and the point was that as per "The Last Outpost", a dead starship would supposedly kill her crew in hours. It might make a slight difference whether help came from newly released Earth or from some other asset, but not a major one.

A rescue is nothing more than one ship beaming survivors aboard. Any ship can do that.

Tell that to Captain Harriman...

What is our timeline here? The Probe comes out of the (Romulan?) Neutral Zone, and soon neutralizes the Saratoga, then we cut directly to San Francisco where we learn it's three hours since the Yorktown became the second starship victim to the probe (there not yet being a third). Kirk has not departed Vulcan yet.

Another cut takes place...

The probe reaches Earth, and Kirk is still 1.6 hours away; it is at this time that Uhura for the first time reports the panicky comms traffic.

So, how many hours do we insert at that second cut? Enough to get Kirk from Vulcan to Earth minus 1.6 hours. Yet little enough that the comms don't yet get filled with relevant news and/or Uhura notices nothing amiss.

We're better off which a short interval, really. And it does seem we have here our third major instance of the RNZ (or at least S5 of it here) being but a short hop from Vulcan, and from Earth. The probe seemingly indiscriminately eats starships and lesser vessels along that path. Surely the path would be as much off limits as Earth until something concrete is learned of the probe's destructive range?

It also stands to reason that if the Yorktown was able to send a distress call all the way to Earth, then they could send it to ships that were closer and weren't affected by the probe.

Yet Uhura never got the message?

One does wonder. Cartwright wants communications with the starship. What he gets is a one-sided tirade. Is this due to jamming that is so potent that only the President's one quarantine call (with all of the remaining power on Earth behind it) can make it through, while lesser messages can't?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Leto_II]

He said "There has not been a systems-wide technological failure on a starship in 79 years". Since this episode takes place in late 2365 or thereabouts, the failure would be in 2286 or so, potentially relating to the TOS movies. But we never heard of a "systems-wide technological failure" in the movies. Unless one thinks the Excelsior stalling in ST3:TSfS was one of those.

"The E-A crash"? What is that?

The systems-failure Data was talking about, there (sorry). The line of dialogue was pretty clearly slipped in there by Michael Piller as a nod/tip-o'-the-hat to TFF, which hit movie theaters just a couple of months before "Evolution" aired as TNG's season three premiere in 1989 (Piller was evidently pretty fond of making nods to Star Trek V in his teleplays, as we saw later with TNG's "Family").

Since "Evolution" takes place in (as you mention) early 2365, taking Data's reference strictly at face-value would date the Enterprise-A computer failure at early 2287, which is the dating given by the Okudas in their Chronology, very likely based upon this line of dialogue.

 

[USS Triumphant]

My theory: The Enterprise-A was an existing TOS-style Connie that had just completed a refit, like the Enterprise had in TMP. The timing was intentional, meant to have her ready for Kirk and company at the end of TVH, and there was never any need to repaint her to say "Enterprise", because her refit hull only ever said "Enterprise" and "1701-A". Why? How?

Because of wibbly wobbly timey wimey mess like all of the information in Crewman Daniels' quarters back on Archer's Enterprise, Starfleet/Section 31 has had top secret knowledge of certain key events that, for the security of the Federation and the integrity of their own personal timelines, they act to insure. The -A had to be ready when she was, because if she wasn't, that might have meant that the command crew would be scattered to assignments all over the fleet - and history already knows that they have to be present for the Khitomer Conference to save the President and prevent war with the Klingon Empire. Ra-ghoratreii might not be above the law, but he's also not above a little bit of temporal shenanigans.

 

[Dukhat]

True enough. But the apparent despair of the crew still means they'd have to wait for some time, and the point was that as per "The Last Outpost", a dead starship would supposedly kill her crew in hours. It might make a slight difference whether help came from newly released Earth or from some other asset, but not a major one.

So basically it comes down to "you think they died because of this speculation," and "I think they didn't because of this speculation." Fine then.

Tell that to Captain Harriman...

Why? Scotty used the transporter to beam survivors to the ship, and the ship was hardly equipped for a rescue mission. Yet Scotty did it anyway. Which was my point.

What is our timeline here?

No more than a day. Maybe even just a few hours. If it only takes a day or a few hours for an entire crew of people to die when their ship goes dead, then perhaps there's something horribly, horribly wrong with Starfleet technology and training.

Yet Uhura never got the message?

How do you know she didn't?

Cartwright wants communications with the starship. What he gets is a one-sided tirade. Is this due to jamming that is so potent that only the President's one quarantine call (with all of the remaining power on Earth behind it) can make it through, while lesser messages can't?

The President was able to send his planetary distress call while the Probe was already near Earth. I'm sure Starfleet were sending their own messages too, probably even before this. And I wouldn't call Starfleet communications "lesser messages."

 

[SeerSGB]

It's possible (but speculation) that another Starfleet ship or some free-trader heard the distress call and warped in to help the Yorktown once the probe had passed. It's unlikely that the Probe had unlimited range, but whatever it did to screw with the power-systems didn't correct itself until the Probe turned the lights back on. Still, it might not prevent another ship from coming in and saving the crew.

 

[Leto_II]

Should note, that the film's screenplay and novelization, the Saratoga is glimpsed by Kirk and crew in the final scene while en route to the Enterprise-A after having gotten towed back to Spacedock, presumably having been rescued from the Probe by someone or other.

 

[SeerSGB]

I could never get behind the whole "The Yorktown crew died, and the Yorktown became the Enterprise-A". Just mental image of Starfleet hosing out the ship and lysoling the consoles before handing over to Kirk and Co.

 

[BillJ]

Just mental image of Starfleet hosing out the ship and lysoling the consoles before handing over to Kirk and Co.

Kirk probably wasn't in too good with Starfleet after the Genesis Affair, I'd imagine. Maybe the bodies were still there for Kirk and Company to clean out?

 

[SeerSGB]

Kirk probably wasn't in too good with Starfleet after the Genesis Affair, I'd imagine. Maybe the bodies were still there for Kirk and Company to clean out?

Just open up the airlocks and the shuttlebay and air it out, it'll be fine

 

[BillJ]

Just open up the airlocks and the shuttlebay and air it out, it'll be fine

I got to say, that the only thing that bothered me about the Starship Exeter fan films was the idea they just swept up the crystallized remains of the crew and sent a new crew on its way.

 

[SeerSGB]

I got to say, that the only thing that bothered me about the Starship Exeter fan films was the idea they just swept up the crystallized remains of the crew and sent a new crew on its way.

Must have been hell emptying those vacuum cleaner bags. One sneeze and you're covered in Ensign Doe.

 

[Leto_II]

^ Or, if you're into it, snorting Ensign Mary Sue probably packs an awesome buzz. That shit's probably like Heisenberg Blue.