What was the prior designation of the Enterprise A?

[C.E. Evans]

I personally liked Roddenberry's original Yorktown theory, but with the added idea that it was a recently repaired ship that was almost as old as the original Enterprise, but rushed out of Spacedock for P.R. purposes as "the new Enterprise" before even all the doors were tested to see if they could work.

 

[Dukhat]

So there's possible evidence against the "Ent-A was the Yorktown" theory. in VOY's "Flashback," Tuvok states that his father was serving on the Yorktown during the events of TUC. So a Yorktown was in service while the Ent-A was also in service. While it's possible that this was a new Yorktown that had been commissioned after TVH, it's also possible that it was the same ship that lost power in TVH.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Or it could have been simply another Yorktown as Starfleet doesn't seem to really have a problem reusing ship names (there have been at least three Federation starships named Intrepid, two of them during the 24th-Century).

 

[Longinus]

I don't understand why so many people insists that it was a renamed old ship. There's absolutely no evidence for that. Scotty calls it 'new' in FF. Sure, that's not absolutely watertight evidence, but it is still more than what the rename theory has.

 

[Griffeytrek]

So they just cleaned out the bodies, sprayed a little deodorizer and....voila, new ship?

It's the Starfleet way. "Papering over accidental genocidal atrocities since at least 2269!" If you watch the body count after awhile you start to suspect the Zap Branigan is the head of Starfleet operations. (And that serving in the Klingon Navy might legitimately be viewed as the "safe option" with a retirement plan.)

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I don't understand why so many people insists that it was a renamed old ship. There's absolutely no evidence for that. Scotty calls it 'new' in FF. Sure, that's not absolutely watertight evidence, but it is still more than what the rename theory has.

Old or new, it was renamed from something. If they operate anything like the current US Navy, the ship names are assigned well before construction begins (under normal circumstances).

Though, even a used "new build" Connie would be newer than the Enterprise.

 

[Leto_II]

I don't understand why so many people insists that it was a renamed old ship. There's absolutely no evidence for that. Scotty calls it 'new' in FF. Sure, that's not absolutely watertight evidence, but it is still more than what the rename theory has.

Definitely. At most, there was probably an intended name for the ship, just before it officially got redesignated for Kirk, and that Scotty's onscreen dialogue was very likely intended by the screenwriters to indicate a brand-new starship. As far as canonical references go, it's pretty compelling when coupled with Harve Bennett's own thoughts on the matter.

 

[BillJ]

I don't understand why so many people insists that it was a renamed old ship. There's absolutely no evidence for that. Scotty calls it 'new' in FF. Sure, that's not absolutely watertight evidence, but it is still more than what the rename theory has.

Because it's fun to bounce ideas around.

 

[SeerSGB]

I don't understand why so many people insists that it was a renamed old ship. There's absolutely no evidence for that. Scotty calls it 'new' in FF. Sure, that's not absolutely watertight evidence, but it is still more than what the rename theory has.

Actually there's "new" and there's "NEW". It could be a whole NEW ship build from scratch or it could a "new" ship to the old Enterprise crew. Sort of like buying a used car, I'm still going to say "this is my new car" but I don't mean it's "NEW"

 

[Leto_II]

Swinging Occam's Razor a bit here, though, it's probable that Loughery and Shatner intended to convey to the audience that Scotty truly meant "NEW" (as opposed to just "new") in his log-entry dialogue. Of course, as you rightly mention, it's all up to personal interpretation, but usually in these types of screenwriting cases, brevity typically demands the most obvious meaning in the fewest possible words.

 

[SeerSGB]

Swinging Occam's Razor a bit here, though, it's probable that Loughery and Shatner intended to convey to the audience that Scotty truly meant "NEW" (as opposed to just "new") in his log-entry dialogue. Of course, as you rightly mention, it's all up to personal interpretation, but usually in these types of screenwriting cases, brevity typically demands the most obvious meaning in the fewest possible words.

Of course you're correct, from a production stand point. In universe...it pretty much is one of those mysteries that will likley remained unanswered officially.

Personally, I lean to the side of the E-A being some testbed or older ship that was dragged out of mothballs as a PR stunt for Kirk and Co. and to get them out of Starfleet's hair.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I don't understand why so many people insists that it was a renamed old ship. There's absolutely no evidence for that. Scotty calls it 'new' in FF. Sure, that's not absolutely watertight evidence, but it is still more than what the rename theory has.

I'm firmly on the "new build" side. But I'm assuming so many people insist it's a renamed older ship (specifically the Yorktown) because that's what it said in the TNG Technical Manual, IIRC.

Actually there's "new" and there's "NEW". It could be a whole NEW ship build from scratch or it could a "new" ship to the old Enterprise crew. Sort of like buying a used car, I'm still going to say "this is my new car" but I don't mean it's "NEW"

But the whole line is "I think this new ship was put together by monkeys!" Even disregarding what type of "new" Scotty meant, "put together" equates to "built" in my mind. If it was an older ship, any issues or system incompatibilities resulting from the build process should have been worked out or corrected long before the ship was given to Kirk & Co.

 

[C.E. Evans]

That could apply to recently repaired or upgraded older ships before they get a proper shakedown.

 

[SeerSGB]

I'm firmly on the "new build" side. But I'm assuming so many people insist it's a renamed older ship (specifically the Yorktown) because that's what it said in the TNG Technical Manual, IIRC.



But the whole line is "I think this new ship was put together by monkeys!" Even disregarding what type of "new" Scotty meant, "put together" equates to "built" in my mind. If it was an older ship, any issues or system incompatibilities resulting from the build process should have been worked out or corrected long before the ship was given to Kirk & Co.

Unless it was recently refitted or repaired.

 

[Leto_II]

Also, again, Harve Bennett, Loughery, and Shatner had behind-the-scenes conversations to the effect that their general opinion was that the new Enterprise was indeed brand-new, and had just returned from its six-month shakedown cruise with Kirk and crew, as of the opening scenes of The Final Frontier.

While this detail ended up not making it into the final cut of the movie (although the specific term "shakedown" did), it still greatly informs the interpretation of Scotty's whole, "This new ship was put together by monkeys" line for me.

I'm firmly on the "new build" side. But I'm assuming so many people insist it's a renamed older ship (specifically the Yorktown) because that's what it said in the TNG Technical Manual, IIRC

Which is kind of weird when you think about it, because so many other sources which describe the Enterprise-A as a new-build ship apparently far outnumber the one or two sources which go with the "Yorktown" theory, at least from what I can tell, according to Memory Beta.

I guess Roddenberry's thoughts still hold some sway with fans, but with all due respect to Gene, who was barely even involved with the fifth movie, I'll go with Harve Bennett's opinions every time on this matter (who was on the actual set every single day during shooting).

 

[Avro Arrow]

That could apply to recently repaired or upgraded older ships before they get a proper shakedown.

Unless it was recently refitted or repaired.

IMHO, that phrasing wouldn't fit at all for a ship that had been recently repaired. Refit/upgraded, maybe, but the choice of words used still seems to best fit the idea of a new build, to me anyway.

Which is kind of weird when you think about it, because so many other sources which describe the Enterprise-A as a new-build ship apparently outnumber the one or two sources which go with the "Yorktown" theory, at least from what I can tell, according to Memory Beta.

I guess Roddenberry's thoughts still hold some sway with fans, but with all due respect to Gene, who was barely even involved with the fifth movie, I'll go with Harve Bennett's opinions every time on this matter (who was on the actual set every single day during shooting).

Plus the TNG Technical Manual was written by Sternbach and Okuda, and since they actually worked on the TV show, I think fans tend to give their licensed works more weight than, say, Shane Johnson or FASA.

 

[Timo]

Plus, I'm pretty sure that the Yorktown's crew didn't die, since the elapsed time between her captain's message to Starfleet and the power being restored was, like, the same day.

"Captain Vijay" looked and sounded like he were seven and a half breaths from death already, though. If his "high hopes" proved futile, I wouldn't bet on his crew's survival.

We don't know exactly how quickly a powerless starship becomes lethal to her crew. But "The Last Outpost" shows a much bigger ship simply freezing solid in six hours or so despite only having a power "drain" rather than "loss".

I don't think they died either. That would be a little dark for that particular movie.

The bad weather alone already probably killed millions. The movie may have been made under the pretense that there was no violence or death, but it just doesn't seem plausible given the premise.

Star Fleet were building spaceships as fast as airplanes by then.

Judging by what events or remarks?

For all we know, the E-B was already being built when the E-nil underwent her refit. It's not as if any of the Enterprises would ever have been described as having built to operationally succeed the one previously lost - Starfleet just happens to slap the attractive name on a random available ship after a suitable delay (be it weeks or decades). Except in the case of nil -> A, that is.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

IMHO, that phrasing wouldn't fit at all for a ship that had been recently repaired. Refit/upgraded, maybe, but the choice of words used still seems to best fit the idea of a new build, to me anyway.

It would still work for a refitted or repaired ship that was rushed out before all her new parts were tested. When the original Enterprise was refitted in TMP, she was sent out with untested warp engines that had near disastrous results the first time they were engaged.

 

[Shat Happens]

I got it.

Every time something breaks on a starship they replace that part with a new one. But they keep the used, "good-enough" parts in a space bin.

When they have all the parts, they make another starship(*). That's why the NCC-1701-A is old and new at the same time.

(*) they employ space monkeys, called monkeys for short

 

[STEPhon IT]

Also, again, Harve Bennett, Loughery, and Shatner had behind-the-scenes conversations to the effect that their general opinion was that the new Enterprise was indeed brand-new, and had just returned from its six-month shakedown cruise with Kirk and crew, as of the opening scenes of The Final Frontier.

While this detail ended up not making it into the final cut of the movie (although the specific term "shakedown" did), it still greatly informs the interpretation of Scotty's whole, "This new ship was put together by monkeys" line for me.


Which is kind of weird when you think about it, because so many other sources which describe the Enterprise-A as a new-build ship apparently outnumber the one or two sources which go with the "Yorktown" theory, at least from what I can tell, according to Memory Beta.

I guess Roddenberry's thoughts still hold some sway with fans, but with all due respect to Gene, who was barely even involved with the fifth movie, I'll go with Harve Bennett's opinions every time on this matter (who was on the actual set every single day during shooting).

It's clear cut to me, and none of that Yorktown crap will never swallow with me. Enterprise A was a new starship, there's never been an indication the ship was renamed from another. Is it possible you could repost your clear facts every time a "Yorktown hopeful" brings up a non-canon thread of redundancy?