They could have ignored the Borg, or had them as bogeymen you hardly ever see, after all they were shot past their space by Kes. Yet they seemed to show up again and again nevertheless.
What the hell happened to Descent?
- Thread starter Praetorian
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They could have ignored the Borg, or had them as bogeymen you hardly ever see, after all they were shot past their space by Kes. Yet they seemed to show up again and again nevertheless.
I think Part 2 was on a similar quality level as the first part. Neither were particularly good.
I've said this before on other boards here, but the thing is that UPN wanted them used as primary foes because the audience hated EVERY SINGLE other Alien race VOY ever created as an antagonist. Not as some background element, as an upfront enemy.
That's because all their other antagonists were incredibly lame. The only ones with any clout were the Vidiians because it was a passingly interesting and new idea, and even they had limited uses. What they needed was some decent antagonists of their own. And as the ship was meant to be constantly moving, odds are these would have to change through the series. It's the curse of doing a 'travelling in one direction' show - recurring villains (and characters in general) are hard to do, unless you have them chasing your heroes, Cylon style, or able to appear anywhere, Species 8472 style.
And like I said, every single time they tried the fan reaction was nothing but hatred. They were ready to rip into anything new VOY tried before it even aired, because all they wanted were the same aliens from the prior shows. DS9 pulled it off with the Dominion because they were allowed to be more serialized and blended it with plenty of stories with the familiar races.
The concept that the fans gave Voyager a hard time from day one is revisionist history. It got no harder a time than any other Trek show, and in fact probably the easiest reception of the modern Treks.
TNG had 'ZOMG its not Kirk and Spock!', DS9 got 'BORING! Space station, they're not even trekking anywhere!', ENT.. well you know well what ENT got. Voyager got a comparatively easy start.
The fan dislike arose when it was consistently and unwaiveringly mediocre while DS9 got its ass in gear.
I remembering watching the first season back in 1995, and I did notice that the fan reactions were far more edged to the negative even before the first three episodes were aired. Long before the Borg arrived on the show.
Point is, every single time they tried with an antagonist they were never given an opportunity to do anything with them due to fan reactions being poor. This caused them to drop said races before they could be developed into anything better, leaving only the Borg who had already been established as a threat in other series.
Really, it would be like dropping the Cardassians after "The Wounded" because the fan reactions were poor no matter how well written they were as characters. VOY never stood a chance when it came to making new antagonists.
Point is, every single time they tried with an antagonist they were never given an opportunity to do anything with them due to fan reactions being poor. This caused them to drop said races before they could be developed into anything better, leaving only the Borg who had already been established as a threat in other series.
Really, it would be like dropping the Cardassians after "The Wounded" because the fan reactions were poor no matter how well written they were as characters. VOY never stood a chance when it came to making new antagonists.
Whenever VOY encountered AQ species, it seemed contrived and implausible to me. Heck, it even got to the point where nobody onboard the ship even noticed (remember the Bajoran Marika in "Survival Instinct" wandering around Voyager without anyone blinking an eye?), esp given that this is a Trek universe where our characters can immediately distinguish identical-looking species.
Voyager also made me realize how littered the DQ must be with Earth-related crap, esp considering how much Voyager discovered compared to amt of space explored (The 37's, The Raven, Friendship One, Scorpion, Dark Frontier, Unity, Equinox, and Distant Origin come to mind immediately). But the whole Earth-centered galaxy is one of my bigger Trek complaints in general.
Not to mention that Voyager threw the entire premise of the show out the window, showing very little recognition to their situation (never ending torpedoes and shuttle craft) or even in-universe consistency (constant dialogue errors in distance traveled, never reaching the BQ, and not being able to locate Mezoti's people (Norcadians) despite visiting Norcadia Prime in the previous episode "Tsunkatse")
True, but considering VOY's premise, the antagonist races had to be dropped (save for time travel) to be believable, which would not be conducive to neither the writers developing a species nor an audience growing attached to a species. And if the audience ever did like a species, they'd have to be thrown out the window (amid fan grievances) rather quickly if we were to believe that Voyager was headed toward the AQ, sometimes in great leaps and bounds, and that the antagonist species did not control vast amounts of space (although it kind of worked with the nomadic Hirogen).
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Like I said, the fans demanded they use other races and didn't allow them to develop any of their own series-exclusive ones. Thus the writers had to come up with random contrivances to get them on the show.
ltcmmanderdata
Lieutenant Commander
agree part 1 was much stronger second part sagged
And when they encountered a Delta Quadrant species, it looked just like one from the Alpha Quadrant -- an English-speaking alien with a funny forehead and all the same technology: warp drive, transporters, computers and viewscreens completely compatable with Voyager's tech.
So basically, if they encountered a new race they'd get slammed for making them too similar, and if they made a new race that's too different they get slammed for making them too different.
...Some people...
And anyways, most sentient life in the Trek Galaxy was seeded by the Progenitors meaning they WOULD all big similarities anyways.
...Some people...
And anyways, most sentient life in the Trek Galaxy was seeded by the Progenitors meaning they WOULD all big similarities anyways.
I liked the idea of Lore teaming up with/manipulating the Borg....
... and this premise was a good way to send Lore out with a bang and also bring Hugh in one last time....
Unfortunately, it just didn't seem to all come together quite right....
... and this premise was a good way to send Lore out with a bang and also bring Hugh in one last time....
Unfortunately, it just didn't seem to all come together quite right....
Just popped back into the thread to say that there were actually a couple of things that I enjoyed about part 2. I enjoyed the whole thing with Beverly in command of the Enterprise and the dynamics that went on there and her staff management. Also, Data's torture of Geordi was quite chilling - although I have to say somewhat marred by the fact that Levar could quite easily get out of those bonds. Worf and Riker were completely wasted (and not in a good way) in part two.
Just popped in this two parter tonight mainly because of this thread. I agree. I really enjoyed part one, mainly because it really delved into the psychological effect of what Data went through and seeing him with Lore at the end was a nice cliffhanger. Unfortunately, the episode didn't go anywhere after that in terms of that plot. They bring back Hugh, and for what? I don't care about Lore's True Calling, even though when he was shut down, that did have some meaning. I also liked the scenes with Crusher on the Enterprise, and bringing back Metaphaysic shielding, which was part of an episode I really liked from the 6th season, Suspicions. Of course I know that episode isn't all that liked, so it might be a guilty pleasure but it was nice to see it referenced when Crusher was in command.
When did that happen? The most original aliens Voyager came up with were probably Species 8472, which were fan favourites.
Fans hated the Vidiians for being ugly, they hated the Krenim for whatever reason, they hated Think Tank, they hated the Hirogen, they saw the 8472 as plot devices, they hated Seska, there wasn't much in the series they DIDN'T hate. And don't say "it's because it wasn't done well" because odds are no matter how well it was done fans still would have hated it. They were too po'ed that the writers didn't have the entire cast all hating and wanting to kill each other from the pilot onwards that they refused to give anything the writers gave them a chance.
I thought the Vidiians were interesting - but they could have used some really nice looking ships to balance out how ugly they were. I liked the Krenim alright, the Think Tank was okay for a single episode (which is what they got), I loved the Hirogen, and I thought 8472 were initially Borg-like levels of cool - but the idea that they were the only species from fluidic space was a little boring, and then they completely wussed them out in "In The Flesh".
I did hate Seska, but that's because the show's main problem wasn't the enemies they were encountering - it was Voyager's own crew. They brought a soap opera with them from the Alpha Quandrant.
I actually view this as very bad development. Crusher's command experience was used for the unappealing promotion of Troi and her resulting humilation of Data and his DECADES of Starfleet service.
Command and medicine are two very different fields. Crusher was already one of the best doctors arround and she did head up SF medical. I guess she and the other superwomen can do it all.
I never saw Doctor McCoy take command of the Enterprise.
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