They should've mass produced the "Defiant Class" & "Saber Class"
What ships SHOULD they have used in the Dominion War?
- Thread starter Arpy
- Start date
Great point. I really don't think the reuse of footage is a problem, with one exception - the shot from Sacrifice of Angels with the Majestic and the Sitak getting blown apart was so memorable that it stuck out like a sore thumb. I think if you replaced that with some slightly more generic battle footage it wouldn't be so obvious.
But the context of the scene is that the allied forces are getting beaten until the Cardassians switch sides, so there was probably only so much footage that could have been used to amp up the tension.
The Excelsior and Miranda, designed for the movies, look obviously like a Starfleet ship, but also do not look like the Enterprise, and that, alongside their being easy to film and have AMT kits when modified/destroyed versions were need, I think is why they got shown so much.
The thing is that, since there is presently no series or movie with much content from 2294-2364, seeing these ships fighting is exciting. But if there had been such a series, DS9 would really have had no choice but to use newer designs. I would not favor all-new designs, though: throw in some of the older ships for realism, but use newer ones mostly. I could envision the smaller Galaxy-family ships being the most obvious ships, with some of the newer designs from First Contact, and the Intrepid-class, Nova class, etc. thrown in, too. The Ambassador, Centaur and some of the DS9TM ships could be used, but in fewer numbers as they would be a bit older. But there would still be some Excelsior's and Miranda's, because Starfleet would need to use any ship that was still able to survive the fight
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We often ask "How long should a ship stay in service?" But I think the original poster is right in suggesting this is not the best way to ask the question of what we should have seen in DS9. A better question would be to look at the various families of ships designed over the years and ask "How much of the fleet would be made up of this family of ships vs. another?"
If you liked the design of the "Balmung" type ship.
Then you'll like the creator of the ship, Dan Ueno.
https://madkoifish.wordpress.com/category/star-trek/
That's his website and all his art work =D
He’s at scifi-meshes finishing up an Atolm TNG Reliant concept. Now, With a lot of old designs that would not hold up in a fire-fight…, I might modify older ships to be kept in orbit with a lot of automation…with nacelles only semi attached with just enough hull to support a warp core/fuel…so it can detach as a giant sidewinder. Obsolete craft now go out punching above their weight. The nacelle free hulls are now shield generators. New ships come in as Dominion ships are crippled and fire just over the old fire ship hulls that now block lines of sight and any returning fire…others explode leaving debris. If all else fails, have the obsolete ships set off Omega charges to block approaches
Can you link us the Relaint thread? I went to check it out and don’t see it.
I was thinking of this ship actually, and wondering if there was a place to get more images of it from different angles. These ships would be the kind of thing that could be seen in DS9. In fact, given how easy it would have been to not get the details of the Ambassador exact when creating a CGI version had they created a CGI Ambassador, changing these few details could have worked of the show.
I'm having trouble understanding how to navigate the artist's sit to look for anything. It seems to be just a blog with pictures in no particular order. Does he have a description of his intentions for the era of that design? It seems to me that the ships would be older than the Ambassador version shown in TNG, due the the Excelsior components added, or just be what we "should" see when we look at the Ambassador class, due to the lack of visible impulse engines on the saucer in the original model, etc.
Yes
Correcto!
Maybe a paragraph or two in each blog post, but nothing substantial.
He has various designs that fit various eras, just browse his stuff.
Here you go: All of MadKoiFishes' stuff
https://madkoifish.wordpress.com/category/star-trek/
https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/223010
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnShhzR5uj8YYCUnxx91Sew
https://twitter.com/Madkoifish
I remember reading on Doug Drexler’s defunct blog that Rick Berman originally wanted the Enterprise-B to be a new class of ship because he was tired of seeing the Excelsior class. However, budget and practical considerations necessitated altering the Excelsior model instead.
It’s too bad that GEN wasted half their budget on the pointless sailing ship holodeck program, the pointless overblown Stellar Cartography set, and the uniforms that ended up not getting used. They could have used that budget money to build a new Ent-B model.
I shudder to think of what they might have come up with for the Enterprise-B, and, yeah, it was an Excelsior Class on the wall, but the Ambassador didn’t look like the model we saw either, and hope springs eternal for what a new ship might have looked like — and if it’d have gotten lots of reuse in the Dominion War shots.
I completely agree with the uniforms and stellar cartography set wastes (though Deanna and Crusher were too cute in their captains uniforms to gripe too much about the holodeck scene). The uniform designs (with their wrist stripes and double-breasted opening) seem a step backward instead of forward “futurism”-wise.
And I’m a firm believer that the entire Stellar Cartography scene could have been done with green-screen. The room could have been spherical too, as seen in this Ambassador cutaway, and looked cooler still, for less.
The B as Balmung is interesting @publiusr. I mean, we saw it years after the Excelsior was introduced, so it could have been a blend of it and the next Enterprise…but if we’re going that route, then I must insist on the next Enterprise, the C, introduced years later still, being a Probert Ambassador. I love it so much.
They could have retained the basic overall shape of the Excelsior profile but still made it a different class. It’s not like any of those wall models were very accurate to the ships they were supposed to represent.
That needs be an OTOY project all by itself.
“The room could have been spherical too, as seen in this Ambassador cutaway”
Agreed
“I must insist on the next Enterprise, the C, introduced years later still, being a Probert Ambassador. I love it so much.”
I do too…but I must say that Jeff Robb’s Council class is an even better fit to the wall decoration and deserves fleshing out.
Jeff Robb was probably the best artist at Firestone’s late lamented GEC….not to be confused with anime model kit GTC which I also miss.
List based on canon combat scenes, or ships known to have participated in canon battles. From oldest to newer ship classes:
1. Excelsior, Centaur.
2. Ambassador. (Battle of Narenda III).
3. Nebula ("The Wounded" TNG). New Orleans (the battle of Setlik III). Galaxy.
4. First Contact ships: Akira, Sovereign, Steamrunner, Saber, Norway, Defiant.
Not sure about some others. But I can imagine other classes might be useful for combat, such as those at Wolf 359-Cheyenne, Springfield, Challenger, Freedom, Niagra. Also, an Apollo class work elephant based on Ambassador components. Perhaps Balmung?
Unfortunately, some of these classes are canon but there is very little information available about them. For some classes their lengths seem firmly established, but there have been varying estimates for others. (Based on different sources, Trekyards listed four different lengths for the Saber design).
How I see ship construction in the years leading up the Borg/Dominion crisis period:
1. Construction of New Orleans and Sabers during the border wars. For the Saber, I prefer the shortest length listed by Trekyards-188 meters. As I recall, one web site prosed that the Saber was originally designed as a (larger) scout ship.
Appearance of the Nebula class. But few of these exist during the border wars-they are resource intensive and slow to build, though less so than the Galaxy class.
Design studies that will lead to the Akira and Sovereign classes. To replace the Excelsior class.
2. Aftermath of border wars/early TNG era. Basic designs of Miranda, Constellation, and Excelsior classes are very old, and the newest of these ships are near the end of their service lives. As these classes are being phased out, New Orleans and Sabers are constructed as a stop gap. Nova design initiated, to replace those very old Oberths.
Intrepid class being designed as a Light Explorer, to supplement the Galaxy class. Intrepids are expensive, but less so than Galaxies.
3. First encounter of Borg by Enterprise D.
4. Battle of Wolf 359. Leading to design of anti-Borg ships. Science vessels canceled.
Note-for swarm attacks against the Borg I would choose smaller designs that could be mass produced. Akira and Sovereigns are larger designs, but are turned into full blown war ships rather than being canceled-as they are to be very powerful.
5. Testing of Defiant class.
1. Excelsior, Centaur.
2. Ambassador. (Battle of Narenda III).
3. Nebula ("The Wounded" TNG). New Orleans (the battle of Setlik III). Galaxy.
4. First Contact ships: Akira, Sovereign, Steamrunner, Saber, Norway, Defiant.
Not sure about some others. But I can imagine other classes might be useful for combat, such as those at Wolf 359-Cheyenne, Springfield, Challenger, Freedom, Niagra. Also, an Apollo class work elephant based on Ambassador components. Perhaps Balmung?
Unfortunately, some of these classes are canon but there is very little information available about them. For some classes their lengths seem firmly established, but there have been varying estimates for others. (Based on different sources, Trekyards listed four different lengths for the Saber design).
How I see ship construction in the years leading up the Borg/Dominion crisis period:
1. Construction of New Orleans and Sabers during the border wars. For the Saber, I prefer the shortest length listed by Trekyards-188 meters. As I recall, one web site prosed that the Saber was originally designed as a (larger) scout ship.
Appearance of the Nebula class. But few of these exist during the border wars-they are resource intensive and slow to build, though less so than the Galaxy class.
Design studies that will lead to the Akira and Sovereign classes. To replace the Excelsior class.
2. Aftermath of border wars/early TNG era. Basic designs of Miranda, Constellation, and Excelsior classes are very old, and the newest of these ships are near the end of their service lives. As these classes are being phased out, New Orleans and Sabers are constructed as a stop gap. Nova design initiated, to replace those very old Oberths.
Intrepid class being designed as a Light Explorer, to supplement the Galaxy class. Intrepids are expensive, but less so than Galaxies.
3. First encounter of Borg by Enterprise D.
4. Battle of Wolf 359. Leading to design of anti-Borg ships. Science vessels canceled.
Note-for swarm attacks against the Borg I would choose smaller designs that could be mass produced. Akira and Sovereigns are larger designs, but are turned into full blown war ships rather than being canceled-as they are to be very powerful.
5. Testing of Defiant class.
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