Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by EnriqueH, Feb 29, 2020.
Basically, when Threshold happens, Voyager gets good.
Out of curiosity, which eps subsequent to "Once Upon a Time" do you consider to be a "dip"?
Checking the episodes names it was:
All of them struck me as decidedly mediocre at best. Infinite Regress seemed like a great idea for the first five minutes until they started forcing Jeri Ryan to act like a monkey (Ferengi) in a catsuit, then it became the worst of the bunch by far.
I totally respect your opinion, and thanks for clarifying.
Infinite Regress and Counterpoint are 2 of my favorites of the entire series. If I had to pick one VOY ep as my favorite it is, with little hesitation, Counterpoint.
Whereas the episode you cited (Once Upon a Time) is one of my least fav of s5 and one I normally skip on rewatch. I honestly (no sarcasm) love how different opinions are on this series and maybe Trek in general... it's kind of refreshing actually.
I can see why plenty wouldn't like Once Upon a Time. Neelix obviously isn't very popular to start with and the design of the holocharacters is hardly, um, memorable (not in a good way, anyway). I would really have liked to see a version with really good cgi characters that were actually believably elemental to really sell the childlike wonder of growing up in the Federation. But even today they likely wouldn't put that much money into this kind of episode anyway, which is why I can just set that aside and appreciate the story for what it is.
And I think it is a great story - firstly I like Naomi in pretty much every episode, but also for Neelix (and I'm not a huge fan of him normally) I think it's the best story (and character pairing) he's ever gotten. Neelix protecting and caring for a child he sees as his surrogate family should've been much more of what the character was about, imo, rather than focusing so much on his food and cultural misunderstandings and desires to play diplomat.
Plus the world-building of getting a glimpse into childhood in the Federation and how everyone has stories about what they did with Flotter - I really liked that. (And was pleased to notice a Flotter lunchbox among Soji's childhood things on STP.)
The core of it is a pretty standard teaching children about death storyline - most adults have seen a million of them already and will probably be bored by them - but I think it's a well-done one with great detail and character work and I don't mind watching stories that are aimed primarily at children as long as they're well done.
No... I'm interested since it's one of my top 10s.
Voyager overall is a very entertaining show to watch. I do think Scorpion was when Star Trek reaches the next stage of evolution. Felt like a very different beast. Something we haven’t seen before.
Infinite regress shows off Jeri Ryan's acting chops. It's one of my favorites. Latent Image mediocre? Timeless mediocre? These are the episodes that make you really think and feel.
Years ago, I bought a CD by a band that I really wanted to like. I put it in, and couldn't get through it. Every now and then I'd want to listen to something different, so several times over the year, I'd put that CD in and try to listen to it. It's wasn't bad, but I found it so boring and uninspired, I just couldn't get into it, or through it. Then one day over a year later I heard one of the songs from that CD on the radio, and a cleverly worded phrase and a guitar riff caught my ear. I googled the lyrics, and took the CD out to listen to it. All of a sudden, as I concentrated more, I heard the songs and was floored. I didn't take that CD out of my player for over three months.
I can't explain this phenomenon. But when someone says they don't like a really great episode, I remember this.
It's in my top echelon of VOY eps too... that's why I thought your question was rhetorical. I had just stated that it was one of my fav eps from season 5 and then you asked what on Earth I didn't like about it...
I just assumed I had missed something (and still think I did somewhere). Confused...
same thing here actually:
I just gone done touting the episodes that you seem to think I dislike... color me very confused.
"Future's End" was Voyager's breakout episode for me.
I did say I was hitting the Captain Morgan's... I'm glad you like them then. Great episodes.
Great episode. The pairing of Tom and Tuvok is great.
Wikipedia says they considered adding Sarah Silverman to the cast after this... OM#G. I knew they wanted to shake things up... but no Seven?
When does VGR get "great"?
From the very first frame of "Caretaker, Part 1".
IMHO, always watch a few episodes and self-decide if ya dig it or not:
1 feels half-baked. 2 is okay. 3 is good. 4 is pretty great. 5 is largely the same. 6 is a step down but still good overall. 7 has a couple great moments but is still going downhill. The show got ended at the right time.
For me, I'd say that Season 1 was OK, Season 2 was solid, and Seasons 3-7 were great.
For me, Season 1 was a mixed bag, but I could appreciate that it was a new show, and they were willing to try new things. Unfortunately, Season 2 was a backwards step in my opinion - it started feeling a lot more like TNG-lite, there was too much focus on the Kazon, and a lot of episodes were just generally mediocre. Even early Season 3 wasn't that much of an improvement, honestly.
I'd say midway through Season 3 - starting with, as many others have said, the Future's End two-parter - is when we finally started seeing consistent improvement, with the show hitting its stride in Season 5.
While I love Season 4 and the replacement of Kes with Seven-of-Nine (Jeri Ryan is a much better actor) the episode that bothers me most - probably of any Star Trek episode ever - is Season 4 Ep. 17 “Retrospective”. Personally, it is the rare occasion when I feel sexual assault is a necessary storyline in popular culture, but more than that I was disappointed that my beloved safe haven of a show and community Star Trek took the False Memory Syndrome route that sadly gained popularity in the 1990s. It’s the episode that continues to hurt me and makes me feel betrayed by the Trek institution which I thought was so boldly counter culture and pushed against trendy social constructs in the name of social justice - that episode goes against everything I respect and love about Star Trek.
I get it.Sometimes you have to turn a blind eye to these SJW episodes, and pretend they don't exist.
Season 2 had "The Thaw," which is one of the best pieces of Trek ever produced!
I am the same. I loved Voyager all the way through. Still my favorite Trek. It had its episodes I didn't like, but on the whole I love it. I did get a bit annoyed when Seven of Nine was introduced and it felt like so many episodes focused on her. I was thinking 'hey, what is happening to these other characters I've been following and caring about for three seasons?' but Seven of Nine wiggled her way into my heart eventually too!
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