What percentage of the crew were gay?

[RoJoHen]

That said, yes adoption doesn't increase population, but that doesn't preclude surrogates or other genetic options. So really, the numbers aren't calculable.

Nor did I make any effort to calculate them.

And my original comment was half-joking, too.

I have a child. Nothing makes you wonder what not having one is like than when you actually have to put up with daily drone and that chalk board angst dirge of that pubescent rusty squeak where every conversation ends in tears or a hand out of the last coins keeping my wallet from floating away.

I don't have a child. It's pretty boring.

I have a cat, though.

I was once an idiot child who had an idiot child.

That's a lovely story.

 

[Praetor]

I wonder: if the Voyager crew needed to have children to provide future crew members, would the gay crew members have had test tube babies to fulfill their obligation in that regard?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well, the entire crew, gay or straight, procreated after a fashion in Demon when they passed on their identities and biology to the Quicksilver lifeforms. Hmmm? I wonder if the Quicksilver duplicates would have kept to the same lines of sexual orientation as the original Voyager crew since deep down they're the same blobs of quicksilver as each other... Hells? I wonder what would have started happening if they began to have children themselves if they were a little more friskier than their templates?

I remember reading a Larry Niven novel where it claimed that the (imaginary) space agency in charge of exploration at the time found it best to select astronauts who had practically zero sex drive since it was harder for them to go insane with just from a lack of companionship and gratification during deep space missions.

Maybe the Borg baby went to the same place as every one elses babies?

Oh no.

You know how Caretaker raped the entire crew in the pilot, or tried to of got half way through or... They were in stirups straped into a framework with their private sections presented and...

What if they were all having Caretakers babies?

The escape, the trip home, their weekly adventures, just a homage to the Matrix to assure that they don't go bonkers, so like bottles of beer falling off the wall, every time one of them had one of Caretakers off spring, memories would be altered to have these parents think themselves always childless and not go mental wondering what space dingo took their baby, but fancifully the Ocampa would have a new race of Caretakers to keep them safe.

 

[Jeri]

In NG:Up the Long Ladder, Dr. Pulaski recommended a procreation requirement for the Mariposans. (It applied to the Bringloidis, too; but they were already procreating naturally.)

The Mariposans had been cloning themselves from the five crew members who survived their ship's crash landing ages before that -- and had developed "replicative fade."

In their case, they could procreate naturally; they just found it abhorrent.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They'd be classified as "asexual" then.

Considering the bonding rituals that Pulaski constructed for those people were 3 men to every woman to create the deepest set of genetic diversity, you'd have to realize that a penis or two could get lost in the crowd and wander off in any of these lottery selected(? I see a council of genetics allowing and disallowing marriages for the next two hundred years until it's pretty difficult for the pure clone dna which might see that star crossed strangers from different sides of the planet who have never met can fall in love despite being brother and sister on a genetic level because of having the same clone type as a parent.) matchings that there would be plenty of room for asexuality to continue as an under ground movement or homesexuality to be chosen, which from the womans point of view would have to be a consideration if they might have had three men club hoovenly clawing at theie virtue every night simultaneously for some nookie that the last thing she equates with fun every again is a penis.

Oh? It was three Marposians to every Bringloidis. O. Well that's even worse if the romantic pairing of Bringloidis would have to criminalized after a fashion to continue on with the breeding agenda.

Is it worse to force one who is asexual or gay to have hetrosexual sex?

Elizabeth Tucker was a Binary clone. You can mix dna while cloning without having to bother woman with the ordeal of carrying a child and the pain of child birth. The infrastructure set up at the time wouldn't have to be jiggled too much to create a new generation without the forced breeding and institutionalized rape that was being permitted. Not claiming that the women were "forced" more than blackmailed bribed and guiled into tolerating this atypical family unit because supposedly they didn't have a choice apart from extinction... Supposedly.

 

[RaymondJames]

Icheb I loved Icheb's character but only Harry knows what happened after hours in astrometrics

 

[neogothboy74]

I wouldn't mind if Icheb were outed.

And while there have been no gay characters in Trek cannon there have been implications that homosexuality exists. There are the lesbian kisses in "Rejoined" & "The Emperor's New Cloak". There are the reactions to the possible lesbian relationship in "Rejoined" by Sisko & Kira in particular. And in "Rules of Acquisition" Dax isn't shocked to learn that Pel is in love with Quark, but is then extremely shocked to find out that Pel is a woman. And while I'm loathe to bring up "Profit and Lace" for any reason at all, it does feature Armin Shimmerman making out with another guy.

Add to those episodes the gay themed episodes like "Stigma", "The Host", "The Outcast" & "Chimera" and you have Trek subtextually referencing homosexuality as well.

And thankfully, there are characters of almost every sexual stripe in the current Trek fiction, and there has been for several years. These characters aren't always central, but they're there. And more importantly, many times characters aren't presumed to be straight, which I love.

 

[Praetor]

I wouldn't mind if Icheb were outed.

Did he really need to be?

(Speaking of which, just where is Manu Intiraymi these days?)

And while there have been no gay characters in Trek cannon there have been implications that homosexuality exists. There are the lesbian kisses in "Rejoined" & "The Emperor's New Cloak". There are the reactions to the possible lesbian relationship in "Rejoined" by Sisko & Kira in particular. And in "Rules of Acquisition" Dax isn't shocked to learn that Pel is in love with Quark, but is then extremely shocked to find out that Pel is a woman. And while I'm loathe to bring up "Profit and Lace" for any reason at all, it does feature Armin Shimmerman making out with another guy.

Add to those episodes the gay themed episodes like "Stigma", "The Host", "The Outcast" & "Chimera" and you have Trek subtextually referencing homosexuality as well.

And thankfully, there are characters of almost every sexual stripe in the current Trek fiction, and there has been for several years. These characters aren't always central, but they're there. And more importantly, many times characters aren't presumed to be straight, which I find extremely annoying.

Very well said.

 

[neogothboy74]

Very well said.

Thank you. I've actually had this conversation several times, so I know my stuff.

 

[KimMH]

I have a child. Nothing makes you wonder what not having one is like than when you actually have to put up with daily drone and that chalk board angst dirge of that pubescent rusty squeak where every conversation ends in tears or a hand out of the last coins keeping my wallet from floating away.[/quote]





Wait until they're out crashing your car and won't tell you in the morning where they've been all night or ask how to use your checkbook!

on another note I read a short story ages ago about a women only society which reproduced by splicing two ova. in the future I expect anyone who wants children could have them. although if you watch the news you may realize perhaps not everyone who can should . . .

 

[Praetor]

on another note I read a short story ages ago about a women only society which reproduced by splicing two ova. in the future I expect anyone who wants children could have them. although if you watch the news you may realize perhaps not everyone who can should . . .

Yeah, I honestly have wondered for a while now why a donor ovum can't be stripped of its relevant genetic information and imprinted with the information of the sperm from a prospective father, then combined with a regular sperm of the other prospective father to produce a literal biological child of two men. Would any information from the original female chromosome/DNA be needed? Since men are XY it seems it would be easiest for two men, in fact, to have a child of either gender. And, it's not that different from cloning.

Now the issue of 'should' is of course wholly separate.

 

[kissthestar]

The hottest percentage.

 

[Praetor]

The hottest percentage.

Or at least most well-groomed?

 

[Guy Gardener]

So the most groomed is the most gay?

I remember Tuvok giving the Vulcan Eye for the Maquis Guy in Learning Curve, that was pretty intense. He was obsessed with how shiny their shoes were.

Does Pon Far force even gay Vulcans to go boff the opposite sex?

 

[Garrovick]

We might never know. It wouldn't be out of the question to assume that the Voyager crew mirrored the general population.

The real problem is that some crew members had living quarters near to their daily work assignments on different parts of the ship. And due to 24 hour ship operations. Having meet ups would seem to be darn near impossible.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Janeway went ape when Tom and B'Elanna were caught necking like teenagers when they were supposed to be working... hey was that Scientific method? Gods? Were they only making out because the invisible scientists were stoking their sexdrives with rocket fuel? Their relationship might have fizzeled out if they hadn't had to justify all that sex with emotional excuses like "love" or "respect" for those Mengalalike chappies winding the crank on their horniness glands somewhat taunt.

Wow.

I wonder if those Aliens for their own wierd reasons could have "made" a few crew gay? How would that be done, what would the consequences have been, and back tot he Tuvix argument, by hook or by crook would they acquiesce to be "made" straight again after the danger was averted and Janeway was back in charge? And vice versus of course would Janeway have ordered a made-straight crewmen to return to homosexuality no matter the protests?

 

[Praetor]

Janeway went ape when Tom and B'Elanna were caught necking like teenagers when they were supposed to be working... hey was that Scientific method? Gods? Were they only making out because the invisible scientists were stoking their sexdrives with rocket fuel? Their relationship might have fizzeled out if they hadn't had to justify all that sex with emotional excuses like "love" or "respect" for those Mengalalike chappies winding the crank on their horniness glands somewhat taunt.

Wow.

It was indeed 'Scientific Method.' I have sometimes wondered if that really wasn't the beginning of their relationship, all created artificially.

I wonder if those Aliens for their own wierd reasons could have "made" a few crew gay? How would that be done, what would the consequences have been, and back tot he Tuvix argument, by hook or by crook would they acquiesce to be "made" straight again after the danger was averted and Janeway was back in charge? And vice versus of course would Janeway have ordered a made-straight crewmen to return to homosexuality no matter the protests?

Now, that is interesting.

Well, at the very least I imagine the centers of the brain that respond to pheromones would have been modified. Perhaps even memory or more cerebrum modifications, depending what you believe causes a person to be gay/straight. I suppose a lot of it depends on whether the aliens were actually successful or if the aliens simply made the crewpersons in question more 'open minded.'

I would guess Janeway would have ordered any physiological changes undone, but then if it wasn't actually hurting anyone (or killing two ) she might not care that much if she felt that a person resistant to the changes actually liked the changes.

 

[neogothboy74]

Does Pon Far force even gay Vulcans to go boff the opposite sex?

I believe that in the Peter David 'New Frontier' book "Renaissance" it was revealed they simply don't go through Pon Far. I could be wrong; it's been a while since I've read it, but I do remember that Dr. Selar's brother Slon is gay, and it's discussed very matter-of-factly. It was an especially fun read for me.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It was a fun read.

But Pete, as much as I love him, can be a little to glib for his own good now and then.

If it's just an urge to hammer your penis inside "anything" until your seed is released, then a hologram is as good as your hand or a friend of the same sex who is egar to rceive what you have to offer, so I have no idea why people do die from this periodic affliction. Vorik turned down the hologram in bloodfever I assumed because it had no telepathic signature, which would've made the lightbulb incredibly inanimate to a telepath who expects to be mindsexing while they're regular sexing surely. However Tuvok did it with a hologram of his wife without remis, which means possibly that he is either less discerning or a telepathic signature is not required to "trip the switch" in the Vulcan brain from blood fever to 5 by 5. However Spock growing up on he Genesis Planet had no idea about his sexuality despite the Pon Far tearing him in two, which begs the question, if he didn't know what was going on, even though Saavik was saving his life, weren't their relations technically rape? If Ponfar is going to "get you" when your identity is vacationing off in a simple country doctor a few dozen light years dustant, how then could the decision to be gay affect a biochemical process that doesn't care what you think or if you can think, unless being gay in itself was also a biochemical process rather than a choice?

 

[neogothboy74]

how then could the decision to be gay affect a biochemical process that doesn't care what you think or if you can think, unless being gay in itself was also a biochemical process rather than a choice?

Exactly. I'm gay and I don't think it's a choice. I don't choose to be gay; I just am.