What killed the Chakotary character?

[mirandafave]

Voyager did have great characters when it started off. However, even before Seven showed up they were not capitalising on them. Paris the bad boy was never much of a bad boy for example.
Chakotay suffered from being in the show at the start of the episode but by the time the first quarter was up so was his character's interaction and import to the story. But I don't think his character had enough substance behind it for them to have a direction to take it beyond being a possible antagonist to the captain - ala Maquis vs Starfleet. But since they didn't go that route he became rather defunct.

 

[freak]

I agree with you on that one, mirandafave. I never actually thought of it like that. I kinda wished that Chakotay had been more angry in the beginning and then later on mutinied and taken over the ship for a moment. Then he would have to earn Janeway's trust again. That could have been interesting.

 

[Anwar]

It would've worked out more if...

1) Chakotay was NOT a former fleeter and had real differences with them, which he didn't.

2) He decided that the crews had to work together to survive right off the bat, but most of his own Maquis now saw him as a sell-out and a lot of the Fleeters saw Janeway as not being powerful enough to reign in the Maquis to their command entirely. Thus the conflict would not be Janeway vs Chakotay but Janeway/Chakotay and their followers against their own greater crews. Maquis vs Maquis and Fleet vs Fleet.

 

[mirandafave]

That's actually a very good point Anwar. I think it would have added lots of layers to the story and brought a lot of the characteristics of the characters out. I wouldn't think it would need to dominate the stories or series - that might blight it but add a little tension and character conflict instead of everyone being on the one page and adding a story arc to the first season. After all we knew they weren't going to get home any time soon.

 

[JustKate]

Oh, I agree. I wouldn't have wanted the Fleet-Maquis split to go on forever, but it would have been great if it had continued for all or most of the first season.

 

[Anwar]

The first season, but only the first season. If they couldn't get their act together after that long they were hopeless.

One idea I had for my VOY rewrite (which is completed, now I'm just doing random revisions) was that the first episode would be the season finale and the ending of it would flashback to one year earlier so from the second episode onwards we'd see what led up to the first episode.

 

[mirandafave]

^ Look forward to the story.

JustKate definitely right about the story could only last for so long. I suppose I hadn't thought all of Season One but certainly the majority of it working up to learning to trust one another. Plus such an approach would have muddied the waters as to who was working with the Kazon and the reveal could have come later maybe at end of Season 1 with it leading to season finale and Seska's betrayal putting the crew in peril forcing them in a blah way to work together.

 

[exodus]

2) He decided that the crews had to work together to survive right off the bat, but most of his own Maquis now saw him as a sell-out and a lot of the Fleeters saw Janeway as not being powerful enough to reign in the Maquis to their command entirely. Thus the conflict would not be Janeway vs Chakotay but Janeway/Chakotay and their followers against their own greater crews. Maquis vs Maquis and Fleet vs Fleet.

This is what I expected to happen but never did.
It would have been intersting to see Chakotay seen that way by his peeps.
It would be the reverse side of what we saw in DS9's "For the Uniform" or Voy's "Equinox". I think we should have also seen more of the Starfleet/Maquis officers distaste for Tom "The Traitor" Paris. Harry & Neelix should have been his only friends for the first two years.

 

[Red Ranger]

What killed him was that since he also a Fleet officer originally, he didn't really have much to offer as a counter to Janeway. Also, his group of Maquis weren't the Fed-Haters that they became after Eddington took over.

All in all, it was kind of dumb to put the Maquis in VOY to begin with because they had no real differences with them to start with.

I agree. It would have been a lot more interesting if the Voyager crew had to work with an actual enemy. In other words, if say the other crew members were from a Romulan or Cardassian ship and they all had to work together on one ship. The potential for better conflict would have been there, esp. if they were Romulan, considering how arrogant they are. A Romulan first officer, chief engineer, and helmsman as main characters would've been cool.

Tuvok still could've been a spy, passing himself off as a Romulan on a deep undercover assignment. And they perhaps could've made one of the Romulan ship's crew members of a different race to show they sometimes allowed non-Romulans to serve in their military, the way the Roman Empire allowed "barbarians" to become soldiers. I can see Robert Beltran as a Romulan, and defintely Roxann Biggs Dawson. I would've made Robert Duncan McNeill a different alien character, using his red hair as a differentiator, of course.

And with a Romulan engineer, perhaps they could've adapted Romulan principles, like using a singularity for the warp drive as it might be more efficient, to the Starfleet vessel. And they probably could've adapted a cloaking device, too.

Red Ranger

 

[kes7]

What killed him was that since he also a Fleet officer originally, he didn't really have much to offer as a counter to Janeway. Also, his group of Maquis weren't the Fed-Haters that they became after Eddington took over.

All in all, it was kind of dumb to put the Maquis in VOY to begin with because they had no real differences with them to start with.

I agree. It would have been a lot more interesting if the Voyager crew had to work with an actual enemy. In other words, if say the other crew members were from a Romulan or Cardassian ship and they all had to work together on one ship. The potential for better conflict would have been there, esp. if they were Romulan, considering how arrogant they are. A Romulan first officer, chief engineer, and helmsman as main characters would've been cool.

Tuvok still could've been a spy, passing himself off as a Romulan on a deep undercover assignment. And they perhaps could've made one of the Romulan ship's crew members of a different race to show they sometimes allowed non-Romulans to serve in their military, the way the Roman Empire allowed "barbarians" to become soldiers. I can see Robert Beltran as a Romulan, and defintely Roxann Biggs Dawson. I would've made Robert Duncan McNeill a different alien character, using his red hair as a differentiator, of course.

And with a Romulan engineer, perhaps they could've adapted Romulan principles, like using a singularity for the warp drive as it might be more efficient, to the Starfleet vessel. And they probably could've adapted a cloaking device, too.

Red Ranger

This is such a great idea. That would have all been so interesting. I liked what we got in terms of characters, but the Romulan idea in particular would have been much more interesting.

Though, McNeill is blond????

 

[exodus]

What killed him was that since he also a Fleet officer originally, he didn't really have much to offer as a counter to Janeway. Also, his group of Maquis weren't the Fed-Haters that they became after Eddington took over.

All in all, it was kind of dumb to put the Maquis in VOY to begin with because they had no real differences with them to start with.

I agree. It would have been a lot more interesting if the Voyager crew had to work with an actual enemy. In other words, if say the other crew members were from a Romulan or Cardassian ship and they all had to work together on one ship. The potential for better conflict would have been there, esp. if they were Romulan, considering how arrogant they are. A Romulan first officer, chief engineer, and helmsman as main characters would've been cool.

Tuvok still could've been a spy, passing himself off as a Romulan on a deep undercover assignment. And they perhaps could've made one of the Romulan ship's crew members of a different race to show they sometimes allowed non-Romulans to serve in their military, the way the Roman Empire allowed "barbarians" to become soldiers. I can see Robert Beltran as a Romulan, and defintely Roxann Biggs Dawson. I would've made Robert Duncan McNeill a different alien character, using his red hair as a differentiator, of course.

And with a Romulan engineer, perhaps they could've adapted Romulan principles, like using a singularity for the warp drive as it might be more efficient, to the Starfleet vessel. And they probably could've adapted a cloaking device, too.

Red Ranger

Pee-U!


Sorry Red, not a fan of this idea at all.
Feels too over the top for me, almost soap opera-ish.

Kes7, it's more of a sandy brown w/ blonde highlights.

 

[kimc]

I like the Romulan idea.

 

[mirandafave]

I like the Romulan idea too. But equally it could have been done with a Cardassian crew. Of course then, there'd be no Seska reveal - unless revealed as a Romulan spy.

 

[Red Ranger]

I like the Romulan idea too. But equally it could have been done with a Cardassian crew. Of course then, there'd be no Seska reveal - unless revealed as a Romulan spy.

Hey, Mirandafave, Kimc, Kes7: Thanks for the love. Exodus, ! Fooey on you! As for McNeil's light hair and eyes, that's why I thought he could be cast as either (a) another alien life form that lives in the Romulan Empire, or (b) a human defector to the Romulan Empire, for whatever reason, or (c) like Simon Tarsis (sp?) in The Drumhead, someone who's part Romulan. The reason I'd prefer Romulans is because they haven't been used as much as the Kllingons, and the Cardassians were used quite a bit in DSN. BTW, Martha Hackett could have easily been a Romulan, as she played one in DSN ep The Search, Pt. II. -- RR

 

[Guy Gardener]

I always liked John better, Paunch was too flashy.

When the Earth Governments merged in 2150 what happened to the Reservations? If they were not smashed during the third world war. More Importantly, did the representatives of the reservations have the ability/capacity to veto the unification of Humanity under the single umbrella which smacks of the dysfunction between the Kes and Perrit in TNG Attached?

 

[Red Ranger]

I always liked John better, Paunch was too flashy.

When the Earth Governments merged in 2150 what happened to the Reservations? If they were not smashed during the third world war. More Importantly, did the representatives of the reservations have the ability/capacity to veto the unification of Humanity under the single umbrella which smacks of the dysfunction between the Kes and Perrit in TNG Attached?

to your last line. Regarding your Reservations question, we know Chakotay was born on a colony world. I believe that before Starfleet was up and running, there probably was a period of time when many indendent colony missions launched from Earth right after Zefrem Cochrane discovered warp drive, notwithstanding the Vulcans. So several folks on reservations decided, "Screw this, let's find new homes out there." Chakotay is a descendant of such early missions. -- RR

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well, if they had their "land" stolen all over again, no wonder they ran once the opportunity presented itself, hells there was probably a lot of people not interested in joining the throng who left dodge just before Earth United.

 

[exodus]

I like the Romulan idea too. But equally it could have been done with a Cardassian crew. Of course then, there'd be no Seska reveal - unless revealed as a Romulan spy.

Hey, Mirandafave, Kimc, Kes7: Thanks for the love. Exodus, ! Fooey on you! As for McNeil's light hair and eyes, that's why I thought he could be cast as either (a) another alien life form that lives in the Romulan Empire, or (b) a human defector to the Romulan Empire, for whatever reason, or (c) like Simon Tarsis (sp?) in The Drumhead, someone who's part Romulan. The reason I'd prefer Romulans is because they haven't been used as much as the Kllingons, and the Cardassians were used quite a bit in DSN. BTW, Martha Hackett could have easily been a Romulan, as she played one in DSN ep The Search, Pt. II. -- RR

That's "Phooey" with a "PH", my man.

 

[Saul]

Underuse, the introduction of Seven and they wrote Janeway like a man.

 

[teya]

I believe that before Starfleet was up and running, there probably was a period of time when many indendent colony missions launched from Earth right after Zefrem Cochrane discovered warp drive, notwithstanding the Vulcans. So several folks on reservations decided, "Screw this, let's find new homes out there." Chakotay is a descendant of such early missions. -- RR

Why from reservations?

You do know that most indigenous people in the US don't live on reservations, right?

Since Jeri Taylor made him a nominal Mayan, I tend to think Chakotay's people were revivalists. There's a great deal of interest among 2nd & 3rd generation indigenous immigrants in their historical languages and cultures in SoCal now--much as Irish-American parents in NY send their kids to step-dancing classes, so you've got Aztec classes for kids.

I tend to think those who'd undertake a journey like that would need to be well-educated in the very technology they were intending on ditching once they arrived at their destination.