What killed the Chakotary character?

[Harvey]

There are plenty of ways to go into trance that don't involve either hallucinogens or technological devices.

Perhaps if TPTB actually researched mystic traditions, they would have learned that...

Vulcan meditation being one, in Star Trek. The thing is, I'm pretty sure, that Chakotay teaching spirit animals to Janeway and Torres etc. was planned to be a major part of the character, until they got scared off. His doohickey was primarily for the nonspiritual types. Whether or not you like the sf version of a mechanical door to spirituality, it was at least something for Chakotay to actually do.

Chakotay's spirituality was a nice door for some subplots, and it was suspiciously dropped early on, but even with that part of his character intact he still ends up being Janeway's "yes man." And what were his relationships with the main cast? He had no relationship with Tuvok, his disagreements with Paris turned out to only be a ploy, he didn't interact with Neelix or Kes, his relationship with Torres was swiftly ignored in favor of the Tom/B'Elanna pairing, he had almost no interaction with Seven (until a completely out of left field subplot in the finale), and his relationship with Janeway went without being exploited for entire seasons. The writers just made him bland! And that's a shame, because I've found Robert Beltran to be one of those rare actors who is honest in person, and an excellent performer when given the material (which, sadly, has been rare in his career).

 

[freak]

I never thought Chakotay was a particularly interesting character in the first place.

I agree. He was also portrayed by an actor with very limited abilities. I have seen Beltran in other projects as well -- he has a very limited range and seems to think that the only way to convey emotion is to shout/raise his voice.

Clearly you haven't seen "Eating Raoul".

Ain't that the truth! Another good one was " To Die Standing". I remember watching an interview with Beltran a few years back and he was saying that he preferred to do plays and theater as opposed to doing TV shows. I guess he likes the atmosphere better? I also don't know him personally as well so I shouldn't really judge or state an opinion about him without any knowledge, but I do have to agree that Chakotay's character wasn't shown or given that much potential in the beginning.

 

[exodus]

I don't think Beltran's acting hurt Chakotay, considering Wheaton & Siris are far worse but that never stopped TPTB from writing stories for those characters.

I think Chakotay failed from lack of direction. After they couldn't really use his "Tribe Hollywood" culture or Seska died, they didn't seem to have a clue what to do with him beyond that. His job was to interact with the crew and do their duty rostier, yet you never saw him in the mess hall or holodeck with his crewmates. Everything that was his job, ended up always falling on Janeway's shoulders. You never saw Chakotay anywhere near the officer Riker was.

 

[Lynx]

^^
Which is sad because I think that the character Chakotay had the potential to be as good as Riker or maybe even better.

The sad thing with Voyager is that the show had the best characters but their potential were never used due to sloppy writing.

It was as if the writers had ideas for the characters but no clear direction. It was like they started to go in one direction, then abandoned the concept for something else which also were forgotten for some other whim.

And finally they just stopped to care for all of them except the sexy newcomer, the holographic picture and the captain.

 

[exodus]

^^
Which is sad because I think that the character Chakotay had the potential to be as good as Riker or maybe even better.

The sad thing with Voyager is that the show had the best characters but their potential were never used due to sloppy writing.

It was as if the writers had ideas for the characters but no clear direction. It was like they started to go in one direction, then abandoned the concept for something else which also were forgotten for some other whim.

And finally they just stopped to care for all of them except the sexy newcomer, the holographic picture and the captain.

I don't think Voy. had the best characters, they were just adverage. The writing was how it was due to the desperation of TPTB to recapture an audience they had been loosing since TNG. I think they chose the 3 characters they did due to inter-politics. It's hard to fit anybody else in when you have Mulgrew & Picardo fighting for dominate screen time. The sexy newcomer's face was posted on every major magazine cover, so new people tuning in are expecting to see her. Why waste all the money for promotion if you aren't going to put her on the screen to make that money back? If anything, it made Seven the next big Trek iconic character giving Voy. far more mainstream popularity than DS9.

 

[freak]

^^
Which is sad because I think that the character Chakotay had the potential to be as good as Riker or maybe even better.

The sad thing with Voyager is that the show had the best characters but their potential were never used due to sloppy writing.

It was as if the writers had ideas for the characters but no clear direction. It was like they started to go in one direction, then abandoned the concept for something else which also were forgotten for some other whim.

And finally they just stopped to care for all of them except the sexy newcomer, the holographic picture and the captain.

I don't think Voy. had the best characters, they were just adverage. The writing was how it was due to the desperation of TPTB to recapture an audience they had been loosing since TNG. I think they chose the 3 characters they did due to inter-politics. It's hard to fit anybody else in when you have Mulgrew & Picardo fighting for dominate screen time. The sexy newcomer's face was posted on every major magazine cover, so new people tuning in are expecting to see her. Why waste all the money for promotion if you aren't going to put her on the screen to make that money back? If anything, it made Seven the next big Trek iconic character giving Voy. far more mainstream popularity than DS9.

I know..and I have a slight issue with this because I believe that it doesn't take one character to make the show popular..it's the WHOLE CAST that make the show popular. That's why I sometimes HATE advertising in magazines. But I guess advertising's job is to visualize a person/character/TV show with a broader range. Am I making any sense here? :P I feel like I'm having a blonde moment.

 

[exodus]

^^
Which is sad because I think that the character Chakotay had the potential to be as good as Riker or maybe even better.

The sad thing with Voyager is that the show had the best characters but their potential were never used due to sloppy writing.

It was as if the writers had ideas for the characters but no clear direction. It was like they started to go in one direction, then abandoned the concept for something else which also were forgotten for some other whim.

And finally they just stopped to care for all of them except the sexy newcomer, the holographic picture and the captain.

I don't think Voy. had the best characters, they were just adverage. The writing was how it was due to the desperation of TPTB to recapture an audience they had been loosing since TNG. I think they chose the 3 characters they did due to inter-politics. It's hard to fit anybody else in when you have Mulgrew & Picardo fighting for dominate screen time. The sexy newcomer's face was posted on every major magazine cover, so new people tuning in are expecting to see her. Why waste all the money for promotion if you aren't going to put her on the screen to make that money back? If anything, it made Seven the next big Trek iconic character giving Voy. far more mainstream popularity than DS9.

I know..and I have a slight issue with this because I believe that it doesn't take one character to make the show popular..it's the WHOLE CAST that make the show popular. That's why I sometimes HATE advertising in magazines. But I guess advertising's job is to visualize a person/character/TV show with a broader range. Am I making any sense here? :P I feel like I'm having a blonde moment.

"Arrested Development", "Sports Night", "Pushing Daisies" just to name a few were all shows with great casts, yet all weren't popular enough to avoid premature cancellation. Sometimes a show needs promotion to get the mass public to notice, just like it worked for "The Practice".

 

[Lynx]

^^
Which is sad because I think that the character Chakotay had the potential to be as good as Riker or maybe even better.

The sad thing with Voyager is that the show had the best characters but their potential were never used due to sloppy writing.

It was as if the writers had ideas for the characters but no clear direction. It was like they started to go in one direction, then abandoned the concept for something else which also were forgotten for some other whim.

And finally they just stopped to care for all of them except the sexy newcomer, the holographic picture and the captain.

I don't think Voy. had the best characters, they were just adverage. The writing was how it was due to the desperation of TPTB to recapture an audience they had been loosing since TNG. I think they chose the 3 characters they did due to inter-politics. It's hard to fit anybody else in when you have Mulgrew & Picardo fighting for dominate screen time. The sexy newcomer's face was posted on every major magazine cover, so new people tuning in are expecting to see her. Why waste all the money for promotion if you aren't going to put her on the screen to make that money back? If anything, it made Seven the next big Trek iconic character giving Voy. far more mainstream popularity than DS9.

Not to mention making Voyager a laughing stock among non-Voyager SF-fans.

Or to quote a friend of mine, an ardent TOS fan:
"Well, they must really be in trouble when they bring in that character!"

And I don't think that Seven gave Voyager more popularity than DS9, not according to the ratings.

 

[teya]

Not to mention making Voyager a laughing stock among non-Voyager SF-fans.

Or to quote a friend of mine, an ardent TOS fan:
"Well, they must really be in trouble when they bring in that character!"

And I don't think that Seven gave Voyager more popularity than DS9, not according to the ratings.

Funny, most of my sci-fi watching friends were far more interested when Seven showed up. Here was real sci-fi--watching someone who'd been a mortal enemy reclaim her life.

It has real-world relevance.

 

[exodus]

^^
Which is sad because I think that the character Chakotay had the potential to be as good as Riker or maybe even better.

The sad thing with Voyager is that the show had the best characters but their potential were never used due to sloppy writing.

It was as if the writers had ideas for the characters but no clear direction. It was like they started to go in one direction, then abandoned the concept for something else which also were forgotten for some other whim.

And finally they just stopped to care for all of them except the sexy newcomer, the holographic picture and the captain.

I don't think Voy. had the best characters, they were just adverage. The writing was how it was due to the desperation of TPTB to recapture an audience they had been loosing since TNG. I think they chose the 3 characters they did due to inter-politics. It's hard to fit anybody else in when you have Mulgrew & Picardo fighting for dominate screen time. The sexy newcomer's face was posted on every major magazine cover, so new people tuning in are expecting to see her. Why waste all the money for promotion if you aren't going to put her on the screen to make that money back? If anything, it made Seven the next big Trek iconic character giving Voy. far more mainstream popularity than DS9.

Not to mention making Voyager a laughing stock among non-Voyager SF-fans.

Or to quote a friend of mine, an ardent TOS fan:
"Well, they must really be in trouble when they bring in that character!"

And I don't think that Seven gave Voyager more popularity than DS9, not according to the ratings.

Ratings don't equal popularity.

The fact that Seven of Nine is a recognized name in pop culture, mentioned on several TV shows sci-fi and non-sci-fi alike is a sign of popularity. Hell, TOS was cancelled twice due to ratings, does anybody question it's popularity?

Did you friend not notice Deanna Troi's cleavage & camel toe for 6 years? I remember that's all guys talked about when she first put on that leotard. I never saw Seven fall helplessly into a man's arms like many women did for Kirk. Tell you friend to rent "the Avengers" TV show and check out Emma Peel who predates Seven by decades. Sex appeal and the indepandant woman wasn't seen as cheap back then, why is it now?

There are very few ugly people starting on TV shows and why you'll never see Steve Buscemi in close up shot on any magazine cover.

 

[Anika Hanson]

I dont think he ever had anything going for him apart from just being a nice guy.

 

[kes7]

I dont think he ever had anything going for him apart from just being a nice guy.

He did have that, though. I found him boring the first time around, but when I rewatch episodes I appreciate his relative sanity so much more. Without him, there would have been nothing but neurotics on board. Even the hologram had issues. He was the perfect first officer in that regard -- nice, calm, friendly, stable.

 

[freak]

I don't think Voy. had the best characters, they were just adverage. The writing was how it was due to the desperation of TPTB to recapture an audience they had been loosing since TNG. I think they chose the 3 characters they did due to inter-politics. It's hard to fit anybody else in when you have Mulgrew & Picardo fighting for dominate screen time. The sexy newcomer's face was posted on every major magazine cover, so new people tuning in are expecting to see her. Why waste all the money for promotion if you aren't going to put her on the screen to make that money back? If anything, it made Seven the next big Trek iconic character giving Voy. far more mainstream popularity than DS9.

I know..and I have a slight issue with this because I believe that it doesn't take one character to make the show popular..it's the WHOLE CAST that make the show popular. That's why I sometimes HATE advertising in magazines. But I guess advertising's job is to visualize a person/character/TV show with a broader range. Am I making any sense here? :P I feel like I'm having a blonde moment.

"Arrested Development", "Sports Night", "Pushing Daisies" just to name a few were all shows with great casts, yet all weren't popular enough to avoid premature cancellation. Sometimes a show needs promotion to get the mass public to notice, just like it worked for "The Practice".

Oh yeah, you're right about that, exodus! I'm not the biggest fan of advertising for TV shows though because I think they tend to go a little overboard with some of the characters..*cough* Seven of Nine in a bunch of magazines..for instance..*cough*. I do know, however, that they HAVE to advertise for the audience to get a more general idea of what their favorite TV show/sitcom is gonna be like this season. And I remember a friend of mine seeing Seven when she first came on the show. She was like: MYYYYY GOODNESS!!!! She couldn't get over her huge boobs and hourglass figure in that catsuit! And I don't think my friend's sisters/brother liked her anyway on the show. "Too serious" ,they said. I was like "yeah, she has the mind of a vulcan officer..go figure!" And my friend couldn't believe that Chakotay and Seven got together in the end! She about had a conniption fit on that one!
Anyway, about Chakotay, he did show a lot of potential in the beginning but was then brushed off later on. I thought it was sad that he was spending most of his time on the bridge of the ship. No WONDER Beltran said he practically had brain damage some days on set! I would too if I sat on the bridge all day and fidgetted!

 

[exodus]

I dont think he ever had anything going for him apart from just being a nice guy.

He did have that, though. I found him boring the first time around, but when I rewatch episodes I appreciate his relative sanity so much more. Without him, there would have been nothing but neurotics on board. Even the hologram had issues. He was the perfect first officer in that regard -- nice, calm, friendly, stable.

I kinda saw Chakotay having anger management issues.
Whenever he was left in charge he adopted this shoot first ask questions later attitude.

 

[kes7]

Well, in fairness, he really only got left in charge when Janeway was off doing something batshit insane that necessitated a lot of shooting (like getting assimilated on purpose).

 

[john titor]

Chakotay was so bland he could have just been a beige shadow. He's the worst character ever in trek, even though Wesley, Kim etc were annoying or wooden they at least had character, Wesley was a pratt, Kim was a wimpy loser but what is Chakotay except a boring stereotype.

 

[Anwar]

Chakotay is just a wooden failed take on Riker, who himself was an interesting variant on Kirk. Of course Riker is the second take on the Decker character who was supposd to have his role in the Phase 2 series. Pre-beard Frakes even looks like Stephen Collins.

 

[john titor]

Chakotay is just a wooden failed take on Riker, who himself was an interesting variant on Kirk. Of course Riker is the second take on the Decker character who was supposd to have his role in the Phase 2 series. Pre-beard Frakes even looks like Stephen Collins.

Riker was a failed Kirk so Chakotay is fail squared.

 

[Anwar]

I wouldn't say he was a "failed" Kirk, the whole point of Riker was "What if Kirk was the XO and not the Captain?".

Worked out okay.

 

[JustKate]

See, I'm not a fan of Riker - not from the first moment I saw him on TNG, and while I tried for a while to like him...well, I failed. He had all of Kirk's bad qualities, and was in addition portrayed by someone who, I'm sorry, is just not a good actor. I tried - I really did - but he is just not good, and he isn't good in the non-Trek things I've seen him in, either. Which is a shame since Frakes seems like such a nice guy, but that's how it seems to me.

So I found Chakotay - and Kira, for that matter - to be refreshing changes-of-pace.