What is your view of Enterprise?

[Whill]

First Contact & Regeneration

PICARD: “Mister Data, lay in a course for the twenty-fourth century. I suspect our future is there waiting for us.”

A major point of this discussion of the Prime timeline is First Contact and Enterprise “Regeneration”, both stories which I love. There is no question that, even though the Enterprise-E crew prevented the first altered timeline where the Borg assimilate the entire Earth in the 21st century, there is a second altered timeline created in which the Borg plot is defeated and humanity’s official first contact with the Vulcans takes place as their original timeline remembers it. However, Lily and Zephram Cochrane now knew of the Borg and the future, and some Borg survived on Earth to be revived in the 22nd century and defeated by that time’s Enterprise crew.

In the special features of “Regeneration” the episode’s writers state that they had the Borg transmission that would take 200 years to reach it’s intended reception to imply a predestination explanation for how “Regeneration” does not mean that First Contact created a significantly different timeline. The time travel of the Borg and the Enterprise-E was supposedly destined to happen and the ENT Borg episode just “explains” how in the 24th century the Borg Collective on the other side of the galaxy found out about a race ripe for the picking to assimilate in Alpha Quadrant in the first place. An argument against that predestination proposition can be made because, before the Enterprise-E followed the Borg sphere back in time, they saw an alternate timeline in which the Borg succeeded in their mission. If the Enterprise-E had always been predestined to go back in time to help create that past, then they couldn’t have possibly ever seen an alternate timeline in which the Borg succeeded.

I also do not feel that First Contact/”Regeneration” constitutes evidence of a significantly new timeline, but not for the same reason that the writers. There can still be an original timeline in which the time travel didn’t happen, so there doesn’t have to be predestination. In the original timeline, there never were any Borg frozen on Earth so the 22nd century Enterprise just did not have that particular adventure. Cochrane never made his drunken statement about cybernetic beings from the future, and Archer and his crew never encountered or knew about the Borg. The 24th century Borg had never gotten any message from Alpha Quadrant. They just made their way to our side of the galaxy in search of new races to assimilate, or maybe when Q had taken the Enterprise-D to encounter the Borg in TNG “Q Who,” the Borg somehow got an idea where the Enterprise was from so made their way there as a result.

Then in the new timeline resulting from First Contact, Cochrane did once mention cyborgs from the future then recanted it later, and since he was a known alcoholic, it was shrugged off by the public as fantasy. Perhaps he said a lot of crazy things in both timelines so it was just another wild thing he said. Lily never told anyone about the future and her life didn’t impact the sequence of events leading to the 22nd century or beyond. In the new altered timeline, the NX-01 Enterprise’s mission did include one adventure that was not there before, “Regeneration”. That adventure did not impact any other adventures, so before and afterwards, things proceeded as they had before the changes to the timeline. The Borg in that ENT episode sent their transmission, but maybe the 24th century Borg were already on their way here when they got it or maybe the Collective never received the message and came this way without it anyway. Maybe “ Q Who” didn’t happen in the new timeline because Q would no longer need to warn Starfleet about the Borg, but some other adventure happened that is still referred to in the same way briefly in dialogue in TNG “Best of Both Worlds”. Or maybe the 22nd century Borg incident was completely covered up and classified to prevent panic, so maybe “Q Who” still happened as in the original timeline - perhaps some high ranking Starfleet officials (or Section 31) may have already known about the Borg while Picard didn’t. (I don’t like Q and didn’t care for the “Q Who” episode, so I choose something else happening instead of “Q Who” in the altered timeline, but I wanted to show there are multiple solutions). And then either way, every Borg encounter starting with “Best of Both Worlds” and other stories happens the same as in the original timeline, leading up to the time travel in First Contact. Just like in my TVH example above, the Borg, Picard and the Enterprise-E crew of the altered timeline were virtually identical to the original versions, so they went back in time and made all the same choices their original version had thus completing the loop: a “stable” new timeline emerged that still results in the time travel events that originally created it.

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[Whill]

The Temporal Cold War?

This is another important item of concern here. I thought it was a really cool idea, but very poorly executed. I do love this image:

Check out this screencap from Cold Front:

Daniels: “You think of time travel as if it were some H.G. Wells novel. It is much more complicated than that. You couldn't possibly understand.”

Time travel in the TCW is very complicated! Time travel seems to become more and more commonly available the further in the future you go. And even for those that don’t have time travel, some possessed the ability to communicate with the past, which still has the same end result of changing things. Monitoring the timeline for changes from the future by any sort of Federation temporal agency doesn’t make any causal sense because any changes would also affect the timeline leading up to the monitoring. So any given point in the future would already be the sum of all the past time travels leading up to it.

Perhaps their technology (for the sake of discussion we’ll simply call it the “time computer”) can somehow sense when someone in their own time leaves for the past (or communicates with the past) and maybe even what time they are going to (or communicating with), and then the time computer somehow communicates with itself across the changing timelines to alert the agents that there has been an alternation. A “sideways in time” communication similar to crossing over from one parallel universe to the same time in another. If it can do that then it can store a “master copy” of history leading up the time of the time computer’s creation and communicate that to its counterpart in the different timelines when changes occur, basically announcing that there is no longer a match in the current timeline to the master copy, and here is where in time the modern time traveler went to. Sounds good right?

Here is the problem with all that. The Federation temporal agency with the time computer described above would only find out about changes after they happen. Even with a live message, “Someone is leaving this time for the past right now,” by the time the sentence is ended, they would have already left for the past, and they would have appeared in the past long before that message was created. All an enemy of the temporal agency would have to do would be to travel back in time to before the time computer was created and prevent that or steal it. Then there is no counterpart time computer in an alternate timeline to alert the temporal agency that a change had occurred in the timeline (or there is no temporal agency at all in the altered timeline). Maybe the technology was created in secret and hidden so no enemies can figure out how to prevent its creation? Nah, just go back and prevent the Federation from ever existing. Oh wait, that is exactly what some enemies of Daniels’ agency were attempting to do by muddling in the affairs of the 22nd century! If they would succeed, that means that it would then become impossible for Daniels to go back and intervene. Daniels wouldn’t be able to go back and intervene because if the Federation never came to be, then there would be no temporal agency, no time computer and no Daniels, at least as we know him. (Anyone’s head spinning yet?)

What if the time computer can see into the future, so it could see when a time travel is going to be attempted before the traveler actually goes back in time. Then it could send Daniels to that time before the other time traveler and he could wait incognito (blending in, not changing history). When the other agent appears then he could try to prevent whatever they are trying to alter. That’s got to be it! Well, as I am fond of quoting from another “Star” franchise, “Difficult to see, always in motion is the future.” If a time computer or anything could see a definite future, that would mean that there is no free will and everything is predestined. If everything is predestined, then how could the timeline ever be changed anyway? You could time travel but no matter how hard you think you are trying, you could only be a part of history. Despite the fact that some time travel in Trek appears to be predestined, it definitely isn’t all predestination or the TCW and this thread both have no point. So scrap that idea. Maybe the time computer can only see possible futures. OK, that is a bit more realistic anyway. Being trans-dimensional beings, that’s pretty much what the Sphere Builders do in the 22nd century in trying to change the outcome of a war they thought they would lose in the 26th century.

But wait, what’s the point? Daniels’ Federation temporal agency is actually the furthest into the future by being in the 31st century. The other factions of the TCW exist in the past of the time Daniels in from. The Sphere Builders may see possible future timelines, but the choices they make to act on those visions have already been made in the future’s past. “Future Guy” existed in the 28th century, and the Na’kuhl faction lead by Vosk existed in the 29th century. Anything Future Guy did to alter the past would have already been history for Vosk by the time he did anything, and anything either one of them did to change the timeline would already have been history for Daniels. From Daniels’ point of view, Future Guy and Vosk both couldn’t do anything “new” to change history because they are a part of Daniels’ history. Since the timeline up to that point Daniels is from would already be the sum of all the previous timeline alterations, just what would Daniels be protecting? If Daniels went back in time and acted against other time travelers from his own past that had already gone back there before the timeline finally got up to Daniels’ life, then Daniels could only alter the timeline he came from.

A possible explanation to make the TCW make more sense is that someone in Daniels’ future (near or far) could have time traveled or communicate through time with the TCW factions from before Daniels’ time, initiating these factions to do the same into their own past. Maybe there is a Future-Future Guy manipulating the factions to in turn manipulate their past. Then Daniels’ timeline would have been altered, and his agency’s time computer may have sensed it. Maybe it could not sense the more advanced incursion or communication from Daniels’ future into Daniels’ past, so they really don't understand how things are happening differently, which is why Daniels may not go deal with Future Guy and Vosk directly in their own centuries to stop the meddling into their mutual past. Or maybe Future Guy and Vosk acquired some sort of “time-shield” from their future, protecting from being monitored by the Federation time computer or protecting them from anyone traveling to their times from the future, so that’s why Daniels can’t just deal with them directly. And maybe they depend on Daniels to follow the Temporal Accords which is why Daniels can’t just take them on directly or go back to before their time to prevent them from in turn altering their mutual past, so instead he travels to the 22nd century where their changes are being attempted. But wait, if some mysterious unseen Future-Future Guy initiated this scenario, then we still have the problem that any alterations factions made to prevent the Federation from forming would prevent the temporal agency and the time computer from existing, and would therefore prevent Daniels from going back to intervene! Uhg! (Anyone’s head explode yet?)

The way to monitor time that would make more sense would be from the past, not the future. Well, I should say using the past, present and future, instead of only the future. When timeline monitoring technology (the time computer) is created in the future, and that is the timeline that the Federation wants to protect because of some temporal prime directive or temporal accords. As I stated previously it would already view the master timeline as the sum result of all the (many) previous time travel alterations leading up to it. Since at least some (and probably most if not all) time travel in Trek involves the classic type that can change things, it would be too easy for enemies to go back prevent the creation of that agency and time computer. So what should they do?

Send the time computer very far back in time, make it as indestructible as possible, give it a permanent power supply, bury it somewhere, keep it hidden and secret. Maybe after identifying the furthest back any previous time travel that has contributed the “current” (31st century) timeline that the Federation wants to maintain, they may even have the means of putting a “time shield” in place to prevent any future time travel from going back further, so they wouldn’t have to send the time computer back to the beginning of time. (According to Memory Alpha, the furthest back time travel from a canon story that is not Q-based is 2700 B.C. (TOS). If the temporal agency had the ability to stop time travel back past a specific time, then it is likely this awesome power would still not prevent Q-powered time travel, which are the only known cases anyone has traveled back further than 2700 B.C.) The time shield could not be placed in all times or it would undo all the alterations that are a part of the timeline they want to maintain, so thus the agency would still have the need to monitor the timeline and intervene when needed starting that far back for any new time travels that did not happen in the timeline they are protecting. If the time computer was never located, damaged, destroyed or stolen throughout time, the temporal monitoring equipment could then monitor time/history live as it happens or soon after, compare that to its master copy and communicate with its past and future selves. When a divergence is identified, then the time computer could alert a temporal agent like Daniels. But some timeline alterations could prevent Daniels from becoming a temporal agent or even existing. So not only would the time computer have to start working in the past, but the agents would have to be in the past, not the future. Wha?!

Remember, in the classic Trek time travel, there is no grandfather paradox. If you go back and kill your grandfather (before your parent was conceived) then the “you” that went back still exists. But the timeline has been altered to one that one of your parents and you were never born. You could travel back to your present, but it would be a new altered timeline in which no one would know you and you would have no identity. But the point is, that you went back in time before the timeline changed so you still exist in the new timeline. You are safe in the past of the timeline that changed - you would still exist because you left that original timeline before it was erased.

Back to the TCW… In the current scenario, if a TCW faction went back and altered the timeline to completely erase Daniels, the temporal agency, the time computer and the Federation from existence, that would not erase them in the past where the time computer is hidden and where agents like Daniels may be waiting. When the time computer in hiding throughout the entire the timeline senses the alternation, it sends a message back in time to itself which then gets relayed to Agent Daniels. So when the Federation is erased, Daniels find out about it and takes action when the divergence happened. Let’s say that for convenience of this discussion, that the TCW factions (still really being manipulated by someone further in the future than the 31st century that Daniels is from) can only communicate as far back as the 2250’s, and Daniels knows this because the time computer hasn’t sensed any divergance any further back. That means to be safe that Daniels would have to be based in the 22nd century or earlier to not be undone by alterations that undo the Federation. His future may be undone, but he still exist in the past and has a chance to set thing back on course to restore the future that he is protecting. Even if you alter the timeline, time still flows only in one direction. Changing the course of a river has no effect upstream from that point. It only effects where it goes downstream.

And by the way, this scenario also potentially explains how Daniels died twice and came back. To borrow a term from Futurama (but not all the same connotations), “Time travel duplicates”! Huh? Once Alt-Tasha went back in time and altered the timeline she came from, she still existed in the new timeline, along with the other Tasha (who was still a child at the time). In ENT "E²", we have two Enterprises and two T’Pols (for a time). In ST09, we now have two Spocks. This is really common in Trek and other time travel stories. But it doesn’t even have to be an old and young version. There doesn’t have to be a big difference in age. Using the Trek classic time travel logic, let’s say you have a time machine, and you go back in time one day to appear before your younger self. You then alter the timeline you came from (your last day) by telling yourself not to go back in time one day when you did. You have then created a new timeline in which there are now two of you, but one is one day older than the other. You both exist. Daniels could have easily created time travel duplicates of himself, and when one died, the time computer alerted another one to take over the mission in the 22nd century.

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[Whill]

TCW Conclusions: Attack of the Alien Nazis

OK, so we’ve finally got a logical scenario that allows for a TCW that makes some sense. But wait! Daniels is clearly shown to operate from the future, and there is something Daniels says that totally unravels my entire explanation. He says that the changes in the 22nd century to the timeline caused by factions in his past are “delayed” in reaching the 31st century? WTF?‼ That makes no chronological sense whatsoever! That is the same sloppy time travel logic writers use from Back to the Future. How the hell could Old Biff take the time machine back to 1955, alter the course of history, then return to the same 2015 that he came from before the changes, just so Doc and Marty could go back to 1985 and then suddenly the changes go into effect? What the hell? The answer from the producers was, the changes to the timeline were “delayed”. Even using the word “delay” is completely nonsensical in a time-travel chronological sense, but the writers of TCW borrowed a bit of time travel “rules” from BTTF…

Oh, and what about the “temporal flux” that Daniels was in during “Storm Front”.? That means absolutely nothing with respect to the actual time travel of the TCW. Daniels was somehow connected to the space-time continuum and all the timeline alterations caused “temporal anomalies” that gave him “temporal flux”, which was just some deadly state with the word “temporal” in it. It sounds like something out of a Douglas Adams novel. And to top it all off, by the end of the TCW, it became a sort of paradox where the end of it became the beginning…

If Vosk had created an alternate timeline that diverged from known history by 1916, then that would undo the entire history of the galaxy up to an including the first 3 seasons of ENT on its way to the 31st century. Oh, but of course, the “delay” of it changing the future allowed for Daniels to send Archer and the Enterprise back to this alternate 1944 right after they saved Earth from the Xindi superweapon in the prime timeline. No, it wouldn’t make any sense to send them back to before the timeline diverged to try to change it back, or maybe it would be just cooler to see alien Nazis in America. And Vosk’s faction was somehow trapped in the alternate-1944 but building a temporal conduit that had the power to allow his faction to invade the prime-31st century…

So let me get this straight. Daniels didn’t have the power to prevent Vosk’s faction from creating the alternate timeline in the first place, or to prevent his suffering from temporal flux, yet Daniels did have the awesome power to just *poof* Archer and an entire starship out of the prime timeline that was not the result of alien Nazis in America, into a drastically altered timeline (without going back to before the divergence occurred). So right “after” the 22nd century heroes and ship left prime-2154 for the alternate-1944, “then” the 31st century gets invaded as a result of the alternate-1944, and that kicked off the whole shebang? But Archer and the Enterprise prevent that invasion, and that somehow inexplicably prevents the TCW from even happening in the first place, undoing the alternate timeline that diverged in 1916 and resetting the timeline back to what Archer knew as history from 1916 to 2150, and otherwise the timeline was back on track to what Daniels knew as his 31st century “before” Vosk attempted to invade his time, and factions in earlier centuries started messing with things in the 22nd century…

What a freakin’ mess!

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[Whill]

Enterprise Continuity

Daniels: “You think of time travel as if it were some H.G. Wells novel. It is much more complicated than that. You couldn't possibly understand.”

The TCW is a chronological clusterf@ck. My main point in the previous posts wasn’t just to get you to waste all your time reading about how I feel a TCW should really work and how what we got doesn’t make a bit of sense. It was to illustrate that you can’t really use the TCW as justification for much more than what the creators intended. It may cause brain aneurisms if you try to think it through too hard, so I have chosen not to. I just went back to the script writer’s line that the TCW is much more complicated than an H.G. Wells novel and that I, like Archer, could not possibly understand. In this case, ignorance is bliss! I now have some really simple solutions to the continuity questions raised by the TCW (including the Search for the Xindi Superweapon story arc). But first, we have to start at the end…

After the resolution of the TCW, let’s consider for the moment the rest of ENT Season 4 to be a part of the timeline leading up to and including the TOS, the TOS movies, and the TNG series as it was intended. Season 4 does explain and resolve some of the seeming discontinuities between previously established Trek canon and earlier in the Enterprise series, such as why the Vulcans of ENT seasons 1-3 seemed so different than the future Vulcans we already knew. But by the end of the 4th season and series, there are still things from ENT seasons 1-3 that fans feel contradict the previously produced franchise of canon. Well, one possibility is that the TCW resolution is the solution to virtually all of those discontinuities!

Despite the fact that it doesn’t make any sense, the “resolution” of the TCW prevented it from ever happening. That means that the resolution erased or changed the events of previous TCW episodes, right? Well, yes. When Archer and the Enterprise got back to their own time in their own timeline, they would find that the some of their adventures were changed in the official logs. Most non-TCW adventures remain unchanged. Some of the TCW adventures still had to happen in some form, like the Xindi superweapon story arc of season 3, because it was the major contributor to the xenophobic craze on Earth in the Terra Prime Crisis.

So if some adventures from seasons 1-3 would have happened as is and with some being changed, then an obvious solution to the supposed discontinuities with the rest of the Trek franchise is that any episodes with the story contradictions changed too. For example, the Enterprise could have never encountered Romulan cloaking devices in the final timeline.


So there are 4 overall 2150s timeline continuities of the entire Enterprise series to consider:

1. The series without the TCW (also without the Xindi superweapon arc) and without “Regeneration”. There is no indication that this timeline would have lead to TOS and TNG as we know them, but it must eventually resemble the timeline in some way for Daniels to feel things are somehow eventually back on track to his 31st century (although according to Daniels it is too complicated to understand how). This is the timeline we never saw before the TCW factions started interfering with the timeline. Sure, a lot of things may have happened the same but it is really irrelevant what may and may not have occurred.
2. Seasons 1-3, with the TCW (including the Xindi superweapon plot) all exactly as seen by us, except still no “Regeneration”. This is the timeline after the TCW interference up to the final resolution of the TCW, and all episodes of the entire series up to “Storm Front” happen exactly as we see them (minus “Regeneration”). This timeline diverged from the original unseen timeline in “Broken Bow,” and was eliminated in “Storm Front”.
3. The entire series with some TCW events changed from what we saw, and also with some changes to some episodes that contradict future franchise continuity, except still no “Regeneration.” This is the first canon timeline that clearly leads into ENT Season 4 that then goes all the way through the TOS and TNG to the time travel in First Contact.
4. As above, but now with “Regeneration.” As discussed in my “First Contact/Regeneration” post above, the time travel of First Contact doesn’t have to create a drastically different timeline than #3. A few minor changes and then we can still have a stable altered timeline that still results in the time travel loop that created it.

Also as stated in my First Contact/Regeneration post, the authors intended “Regeneration” to explain the time travel of First Contact as predestination time travel. That is why the episode was shown with the rest of the episodes as seen in timeline #2 above - the authors suggest that “Regeneration” ‘always’ happened but that is a error on their part because of the Enterprise-E seeing an alternate Borg-succeeding timeline that could not be a part of the supposed predestination loop. Therefore, I had to remove “Regeneration” from that continuity until the timeline after the timeline that would generate First Contact in the first place to resolve the author’s error. Nothing’s wrong with the episode itself in the final timeline, just its natural timeline placement due to the author’s intentions.

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[Whill]

Conclusions

Even with the mess of the TCW, I still feel that the Enterprise series is overall a prequel to the TOS and TNG series in the same timeline. Timeline 3 above is after the resolution of the TCW leading to the initial time travel in First Contact, and in the 2150s, Timeline 4 is nearly identical to timeline 3 except for the addition of “Regeneration.”

Let’s briefly analyze the Enterprise productions and studio/producer intentions.

Before the resolution of the TCW (ENT seasons 1-3), Enterprise received a lot of criticisms from die hard Trek fans because it didn’t play into the continuity of the others series that much, it flat-out contradicted the previously produced franchise of canon multiple times, and specifically the nonsensical TCW itself. Then what happened in season 4? The producers were told to resolve the TCW asap, and so they did. And the resolution showed that the TCW was prevented from occurring in the first place, which obviously undid or changed several events from the previous 3 seasons, including even the series pilot. But the producers were mostly vague about exactly what had been changed, leaving that to each fan to decide based on their individual views (and criticisms) of the series. Then the entire rest of the season/series was devoted to stories that resolved more contradictions (while being very careful to make no new ones) and tied ENT into the rest of the franchise much more. It was too little too late to save the show, but it was a pretty good effort (and I mostly loved the result).

It is obvious to me that the producers were strongly suggesting that the franchise continuity contradictions from the first three seasons of ENT that were not resolved by Season 4 may have just simply disappeared after the TCW resolution. Why else would they do that unless they were promoting ENT’s status as in the same canon as the rest of the franchise before it? And, why else would they make such an overt effort in the 4th season of fitting ENT into other franchise continuity unless they were promoting ENT’s status as in the same canon?

Besides these things that show me that ENT was meant to be in the same canon, I do also have some more specific responses to the case that those make for ENT only being a part of a separate post-First Contact timeline.

You cite specifically how the Enterprise technology seems more advanced than TOS. How did the Borg and Enterprise-E appearing in the mid-21st century explain that technological acceleration from 2063-2151 compared to the original timeline’s advances from 2063-2373? “Regenerations” makes clear that no other Borg technology had been discovered on Earth before that episode. We can assume that the 24th century E-crew didn’t leave any of their technology behind. Yes, Cochrane and Lily have seen some of the future-tech, but do they really understand how it works? How it was developed? I have a background in advanced mathematics and physics, and I’ve seen some advanced technology that I haven’t much of a clue how to recreate. And that tech wasn’t from over 300 years in my future.

Now let’s go the other direction. When the Enterprise-E returned to the 24th century, it seems to be the same technology as when they left. If technological advancement had been accelerated so much from 2063 to the 2150s, then how do you explain how it slowed back down from the 2160s to the 2373? It seems that if there had been so much technological acceleration in less than 100 years, that advancement wouldn’t just decelerate and stop in over 200 more years after that. It is just too much of a coincidence for the pre-First-Contact and post-First-Contact timelines to go so astray from each other by 2151 and then just happen to re-coincide with each other by 2373, both technologically and continuity-wise in general (especially DS9 and VOY).

In the new Alternate Reality’s timeline , they don't have to worry about fitting the timeline back in with previously produced future continuity. And, it is much more realistic that a mid-23rd century vessel would be able to scan a late-24th century mining ship and transmit the scans to the fleeing shuttles so Starfleet can take 20 years to learn and apply the technological information and thus have a technological acceleration, than a few 21st century nuclear holocaust Earthlings initiating an acceleration just by seeing some future technology in use.

I think the bigger issue for a lot of Trek fans comes from aesthetics of real-world time. TOS is even a little difficult for me to watch nowadays, so I will only watch the remastered versions with at least some enhanced effects. ENT does look more advanced than TOS technology, but that’s because the TOS was produced 35 years earlier! I’m sure TOS looked futuristic in the 60s. My computer looks way more advanced than anything on TOS Enterprise. My phone is way more advanced than a mid-23rd century communicator. We have to remember that Star Trek is fiction, and only a product of its time. I warn against using mere real-world observations of the sets and pops as a rational for supposed in-universe discrepancies.

And if we want to cite canon from the very series this thread focuses on, then I refer you to ENT “In a Mirror, Darkly”. The 22nd century technology in the Mirror Universe is analogous to what we see in the rest of ENT. A TOS ship from the future of the Enterprise series appears in the Mirror Universe, but no it doesn’t really look like it is from the future of ENT. But when Mirror-Archer views the files and talks about the Archer from the other universe, and this is clearly supposed to represent the Archer seen in ENT. The 23rd century ship looks like the TOS, because it is meant to represent the TOS. We just have to accept that in the Prime Universe, the 2260s have aesthetics that look a lot like the cheesy sci-fi 1960s when the earlier 2150s do not.

Enterprise is a prequel to the earlier produced Trek franchise (and now also a prequel to the divergent Alternate Reality). No, the Enterprise series didn’t exist when they created previous other TV series, but a prequel is retroactive continuity: It is created after to take place before. In the Prime Universe, TOS is the future of Enterprise.

This has been a fun thread!

 

[Whill]

Well, some things are not always spelled out for us.
Here is a list I came up with, that makes it pretty clear, though...

1. Spock specifically stated in TOS "Balance of Terror" that there was no visual ship to ship communication (no view screens) and that Earth used primitive vessels with primitive atomic (nuclear based) type weapons in the Earth Romulan War.

No, “no visual ship to ship communication” does not necessarily mean “no view screens.” Since Earth ship’s are shown to use “visual ship to ship communication” in the 2150s, that line could just mean that the Romulans never communicated visually. Remember, that episode was a story about racism and prejudice, and they had no idea what the Romulans looked like until then. “No visual ship to ship communication” was said to explain how they never knew what the Roms looked like until then. And remember, in BOT, the Enterprise tapped into the Romulan bridge cameras. The Earth ships of the ERW (Earth-Romulan War) may not have been able to do that but the 23rd century starships can.

The use of the word “primitive” has a couple connotations. It is used to refer to weaponry as primitive by 23rd century standards, the point of view of the characters. It is also meant to imply that nuclear weapons are barbaric, a social statement about the present time of the viewers (Sci-fi has been known to make those). Since it would only take a fraction of the world’s nuclear arsenal to create the nuclear holocaust of the 21st century, I suspect that Earth would have plenty of nukes left over to use in their first interstellar war. (Hey, that sounds like a good way to get them off our planet! Where’s the Romulans when you need them? )

2. Between the Enterprise D computer, Scotty, Sisko, and two temporal investigation agents: the NX-01 is not mentioned as being a significant Enterprise or starship, even though it was a rather important ship in helping to form the Federation (Regardless if the NX-01 was a Federation ship or not).

The Enterprise series had not been conceived at the point of TNG “Relics” (1992) and DS9 “Trials and Tribble-ations” (1996) so it would have been real-world impossible to refer to the NX-01 at the time. However, there are possible retroactive explanations. There was no connotation of “significant” or “important” when denoting Enterprise history in those episodes. In the timeframe of those episodes, the characters lived in a Federation that had existed for over 300 years. That would be often the default connotation of starship history and many other subjects. I often find myself speaking in general terms about something without adding “in America” or “since the formation of our country.” The qualifications of the subject at hand are often implied by the context. And also remember, in “Relics” Scotty refers to being possibly saved by Kirk, but I don't see anyone claiming a new timeline is the explanation for that reference which only later seemed strange by the retroactive continuity of the Generations prologue in which Scotty was there when Kirk “dies” (and I have explanations for that too J).

3. In TOS "Balance of Terror", Spock and Kirk are both surprised when they see the Romulan ship's cloaking technology. Spock theorizes about the requirements needed for this technology seeing it is the first time he has seen (or gained knowledge of) something like this. Yet, on "Enterprise" we see a Romulan ship de-cloak right before Archer's eyes.

I mentioned that one in a previous post. That Romulan incident took place before the resolution of the TCW, so it didn’t necessarily happen in the final Enterprise timeline.

4. In TNG's TV episode titled "First Contact", Picard mentions to the ambassador that "first contact" with Klingons led to decades of war, which eventually led Starfleet to do surveillance of new alien cultures or worlds before making "first contact". But in ENT's "Broken Bow" there was no indication that "first contact" went bad in any way.

If Picard said, “lead to decades of war”, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it immediately lead to war. The “decades of war” could have happened much later than the first contact. Remember that Klingons of the House of Duras have always tried to rule the Empire and some of them hated Archer. We know that Archer eventually becomes a Starfleet admiral (ST09) and even President of the United Federation of Planets (“In a Mirror, Darkly”). Maybe the influential Duras family continued their vendetta against Archer by manipulating the Empire to become hostile with the Federation.

5. In TOS's "Turnabout Intruder", Janice Lester states to Kirk that... "Your world of Starship Captains doesn't admit women". Many folks think that Janice was talking about Kirk leaving her to be a Captain. However, Kirk later said that Lester tortured and punished him over the fact that his world of Starship Captains doesn't admit women. How can Janice punish Kirk if he left her?

That’s a lame episode, but ok. Maybe there just happened to have not been any women captains at the time and Lester wrongly believed that she couldn’t be a captain because she was a woman. Maybe it was really because she was psycho!

6. In TNG's "A Matter of Time", Worf stated that there were no phasers in the 22nd Century. Yet we see phase pistols that closely resemble phasers in Archer's era. In the episode, the time traveler was asking what was the most "important" examples of progress in the last 200 years to Commander Riker. He was not asking for subtle changes within history. He was asking for significant changes within history.

Phase pistols are far less powerful than phasers. By the 2260s, phasers can instantly disintegrate things with no mess left behind. There are no “phasers” in the 22nd century per se.

7. You will note that Riker says in ENT's "These Are The Voyages" that he is ready to talk to Captain Picard now after his little holodeck lesson. So he then walks out of the holodeck with Troi and the camera zooms out to show the Enterprise D in the asteroid field. However, Riker never went to Picard and revealed the truth about the secret he was carrying. Riker was convinced to reveal the truth to Picard only when the Romulans trapped the Enterprise inside the asteroid (where the starship Pegasus was).

Maybe Riker made his decision to tell his captain the secret, and then chickened out until he finally did as shown in the TNG episode. Despite the fact that "These Are The Voyages" is so lame, the episode actually supports the argument that ENT takes place in the same continuity as TNG. See above my above post where I mention how unrealistic it is for your two timelines to synch up so much after supposedly going so far astray from each other in the 22nd and 23rd centuries.

8. Star Trek: Enterprise starts off with a Temporal Cold War. Suggesting that there was another time line before this one.

Agreed. However, that alone does not suggest that the entire franchise of canon produced up to First Contact is the previous timeline before the TCW. To the contrary, there are many suggestions that the timeline after the resolution of the TCW is in fact the timeline leading to First Contact. The other timeline before the TCW is a timeline never seen in canon. See my posts above.

9. The Xindi Incident was never supposed to have happened. Again, this suggests that there was a time line that we had not seen before (that went unaltered).

Exactly, but see above.

10. The Temporal Cold War comes to an end and the time line resets itself, however, the Xindi Incident had not been erased, for some reason though. (This suggests that the changed time line continues on).

Agreed again. It is true that the final timeline after the resolution of the TCW does still include the Xindi Incident. Some things about the TCW still happen in the final timeline and others don’t. According to Daniels, “You couldn't possibly understand.” But the changed timeline does continue on… to the TOS and TNG.

12. Star Trek: Enterprise is supposed to be 200 years in Picard's past. Just looking at the ship and crew, does it really look that much different than a ship and crew in the 24th Century? They still have phasers, transporters, and the same looking ship design. You'd think there would have been some kind of change in all that time.

Regarding transporters, remember that was a new technology at the beginning of ENT. It was not yet deemed safe for human transport and Archer was the first successful sentient being to be transported (at least by Earth technology), and that was in an emergency. Throughout the series, the transporter was used for cargo and otherwise in mostly urgent situations. As far as the 22nd century technology seeming to be similar to the 24th century technology, really all Trek technology is similar to each other. The Enterprise technologies are portrayed as less powerful and less advanced versions of later technologies. As far as perceived differences between TOS and the rest of the franchise, I’m sure there’s some good Treknobabble out there to explain that.

11. If Cochrane in the Original Series episode titled "Metamorphosis" was indeed from the First Contact time line, then he would have said something about how he ran into another crew from a starship named Enterprise. This suggests that this Original Series episode was unaffected by the First Contact time travel incident. Which would mean that the series called "Star Trek: Enterprise" exists within the changes made by First Contact (in other words it would be an altered time line).

Are you serious? “…he would have said something about how he ran into another crew from a starship named Enterprise.” "Metamorphosis" first aired in 1967 and First Contact was released in 1996, nearly 30 years later. So no, Cochrane most certainly could not have said that. How could the writer of "Metamorphosis" know a thing about First Contact? That’s real-world impossible. In 1967 it was not foreseeable that Star Trek would ever still be around 30 years later, there would ever be a TNG series or any Star Trek films, or there would be a movie about Cochrane’s role in Earth’s first official contact with Vulcans. Silly statements like #11 do not help to support your claim at all. You know time travel is not actually real. Of course, even if that dialogue had been there, Cochrane’s reference to another Enterprise crew wouldn’t have made any sense to the audience at the time anyway. In the 1960s, there was only one known starship named Enterprise.

Perhaps we can just rationalize that Cochrane knew what century it was in "Metamorphosis” (the 23rd), and the Enterprise crew he had encountered in First Contact was still in the future, from the 24th century. In “Regeneration,” Archer refers to the one slip-up Cochrane made referring to the time travelers was later recanted by him, and the only reason would be to cover up the truth. In "Metamorphosis” Cochrane didn’t seem to have any booze on that planet so it makes sense that he wouldn’t have drunkenly blurted out anything about 24th century because he knew that Kirk and Spock shouldn’t know about that yet. OK?

As stated in a previous post, I warn against rationales that include real world impossibilities like why First Contact and Enterprise weren’t referenced in the franchise long before they were conceived. Time travel stories to the past of previously produced continuity and franchise prequels are not usually planned out many years in advance. It is not sensible to expect a writer to know about stories that haven’t been written yet, so it is also not reasonable use that to substantiate an in-universe theory. That is like saying, “Enterprise can’t be a prequel in the same timeline as the TOS and TNG because ENT would have been made first.” That totally eliminates the need for the word prequel: a story that is produced after another but takes place before. If the studio or producer of a series says that it is a prequel, it is logical to look for explanations to make things fit together.

All that being said, each fan is free to define your own canon. I pick and choose which episodes and movies that are a part of my personal canon, and I eliminate ones that do not fit in my personal vision of the Star Trek universe. But this thread has not only been about our views of what is and what isn’t personal canon. It has clearly also been about arguing a case for what the Enterprise series was intended to be by the studio, producers and writers, so I have replied to that as well.

Live long and prosper.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Um, Whill...

While I appreciate your obvious enthusiasm, the idea of a discussion thread is for many people to participate in the discussion, not for one person to commandeer an entire thread.

Please take a look at the FAQ regarding spamming. When you post more than twice in a row, even if your posts are a wealth of information and opinion, it's spamming. I believe you might have just broken the record, with 10 posts in 4 minutes.

Also, there's a reason we have a limit on words-per-post. The length of your posts will likely be too daunting for all but the most determined of posters to wade through.

In future, please post no more than twice in a row, and endeavor to give us bite-sized pieces rather than a 10-course banquet. Give everyone else a fighting chance to squeeze in their own thoughts. Okay?

 

[Whill]

I apologize, and thank you for the kind warning.

I did think about the total length of what I was posting, but I didn't ever run into a character or word per post limit (although I certainly believe you there is one). I decided to break it up per sub-topic for it to be easier to digest, and even my longest one regarding TCW did fit. I thought about posting one sub-topic at a time, but since they were all connected and going somewhere, I thought that some forum users wouldn't be able to see where I was going if there were all broken up. I thought it was such a long essay that my posts would be easier for others to follow if they were all back-to-back instead of spread out without people's posts in between. If you ever have the time or interest to read my posts, then I think you will understand where I was coming from.

I am admiting my conscious decision to do what I did, but I hope you beleive me that I did have a good intention towards potential readers of my posts. I accept from you that I chose poorly regardless. I promise to honor the guidelines you have pointed out to me going forward.

Thanks.

 

[Leathco]

I think it fits best as an altered First Contact timeline. We never hear of the NX-01 until Enterprise comes out, not one sentence about it. My thoughts are that the Enterprise E and Borg tampering with first contact accelerates human defensive and weaponry development, culminating in Enterprise being pretty sophisticated in its time, and even going further to the Abrams film.

It don't matter, its still prolly my favorite series of them all, with DS9 way up there too. Keep in mind the only TOS I have seen is Season 2 (and the animated one), although I just bought season one of TOS the other day on ebay.

 

[jolene_b_fan]

well, its a good show, that didn't get a fair chance. it aired at Trek overload, TNG, DS9, Voy, etc. right into ENT. Should have waited a few years, and the other shows were running so many re-runs too. Too much Trek at that time.

 

[Whill]

Re: Conclusions

This has been a fun thread!

My time travel "thesis" of posts 197-206 in this thread was posted in July. I thought there was a great discussion leading up to it going here. I didn't mean to totally kill it!

 

[number6]

My view of ENT is from the futon/couch in my living room.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Enterprise is the same timeline as the rest of Star Trek because that's what the writers intended. Anything saying otherwise is a continuity error or (in most cases, like the use of cloaking devices and the modern look of the show vs. 60's TOS) a retcon.

It was the intent of the show to depict TOS/TNG and the rest as the result of all the history tampering, not that said tampering changed things away from TOS/TNG and the rest.

 

[Whill]

It was the intent of the show to depict TOS/TNG and the rest as the result of all the history tampering, not that said tampering changed things away from TOS/TNG and the rest.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say.

 

[Destructor]

The poll is a bit flawed, because to say: "It's not canon, no matter what the producers say!" is a tautology. The word canon means 'Onscreen Trek', as dictated by the producers. You can declare that it's not part of your personal trek continuity, but that wouldn't be canon, because the word canon denotes material accepted as 'official'- not personal.

 

[Gary7]

Yeah, I think that little essay from Whill would've been better served on an external webpage, with a link provided here. In the forum format, it's just very difficult to read... I tried, but gave up.

I think ENT fits very well within the timeline. There are some liberties taken, but overall it provides reasonable precursors to content that shows up in TOS and beyond. For example, I thought the resolution of what happened to the USS Defiant from TOS to be well done. Certainly the ship could have cross faded into the past as well as another universe. Although the bridge wasn't quite as accurate as it could have been (the New Voyages/Phase II did a better job!), the representation of more advanced technology in a more minimalist fashion was handled nicely. Sometimes ENT shows technologies appearing more advanced than they were in TOS, but most of the time they're properly scaled back.

 

[6079SmithW]

I voted for canon that fits flawlessly in the trek time line. I was considering altered FC and altered TCW but they didn't really alter anything. I consider these time travel events to be predestination paradoxes. When we first meet Cochrane in "Metamorphosis" the events of FC have already taken place. It was already a part of history. The same goes for the TCW.