What is your personal head canon?

[Lord Garth]

Here's something: What during TOS or TAS leads Spock to decide to pursue Kholinar and the purging of all emotion? I've always accepted it as given, but it's never been something I've ever been able to crack.

I'm sure it's probably explained in the Lost Years novels from the '90s, but I haven't read them.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Here's something: What during TOS or TAS leads Spock to decide to pursue Kholinar and the purging of all emotion? I've always accepted it as given, but it's never been something I've ever been able to crack.

I'm sure it's probably explained in the Lost Years novels from the '90s, but I haven't read them.

I always figured it was an outgrowth of his personality, his drive to be 'more Vulcan than a Vulcan.' I wouldn't attribute it to any one event. At the end of the 5-year mission he'd been aboard Enterprise for what? 18 years? His two best friends weren't coming back- Kirk was promoted and McCoy left Starfleet. Spock expressed no desire to command, and that was what would have been in the cards for him. I think he was looking for his next challenge, and saw Kolinahr as a worthy effort- so he went for it.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The X-Men movie established the impracticality of yellow spandex. Bikini briefs were too ludicrous to even mention.

Seriously, though... bare legs in general are a bad idea when you're likely to get in a dust-up. One good throw on the ground, and you're out of service for a couple weeks while your legs heal up.

Ergo Lightly padded Full Leather costumes.

 

[fireproof78]

Perfect for biking.

 

[Oddish]

Here's something: What during TOS or TAS leads Spock to decide to pursue Kholinar and the purging of all emotion? I've always accepted it as given, but it's never been something I've ever been able to crack.

He and Christine Chapel renew things. It doesn't end well.

Perfect for biking.

Those spandex shorts that come down almost to your knees are better. You take a spill, your knees might be cat food, but at least your hips are protected.

 

[fireproof78]

Those spandex shorts that come down almost to your knees are better. You take a spill, your knees might be cat food, but at least your hips are protected.

Motor biking.

 

[cooleddie74]

The "Yesteryear" incident happens relatively late in the five-year mission so perhaps Spock's interactions with his younger self and Sarek and witnessing Vulcan society from a different perspective played roles in him deciding to pursue the Kolinahr? The events of that episode were pretty jarring for him and probably made him begin to view Vulcan's culture and how it treats both logic and emotion through a new filter.

 

[Oddish]

^^Ah. Misunderstood. Yes, if I was riding along at 65 mph without a car (or bus) around me, I'd want heavy duty protection as well.

While "Batman and Robin" was a pretty poor movie, it got two things right: one, Robin was more or less adult. And two, he and Batman had costumes that would actually protect them.

QUOTE: IIRC, they only did that for one game. The Royals players were laughing so hard that the obviously embarrassed Sox got to change into long trousers for the second game of the doubleheader.

And that was shorts. Can you imagine if they'd showed up in Speedos?

 

[Sci]

Yes, actually. No institution can be trusted to act in the interests of anyone other than itself if it is not accountable to others.

Star Trek would have us believe otherwise. Humanity exhibits higher self control in the name of evolution.

The entire point of Section 31's appearances in DS9 is that they cannot be trusted to act in the Federation's best interests because they are accountable to no one.

 

[fireproof78]

The entire point of Section 31's appearances in DS9 is that they cannot be trusted to act in the Federation's best interests because they are accountable to no one.

I agree that they cannot be trusted.

The accountability part I question, especially in light of the idea that humanity, or at least members of the population are expected to practice self-control.

 

[Sci]

I agree that they cannot be trusted.

The accountability part I question, especially in light of the idea that humanity, or at least members of the population are expected to practice self-control.

Systems of accountability will never prevent all forms of abuse, but a lack of accountability will always enable all forms of abuse.

Accountability may not be sufficient, but it is still necessary.

 

[fireproof78]

Systems of accountability will never prevent all forms of abuse, but a lack of accountability will always enable all forms of abuse.

Accountability may not be sufficient, but it is still necessary.

I understand. You speak with certainty on something Trek has a conflict on.

I am looking at Star Trek as a whole. It's an interesting contrast of Trek's presentation on humanity.

 

[Lord Garth]

Cracked it. Finally.

I always figured it was an outgrowth of his personality, his drive to be 'more Vulcan than a Vulcan.' I wouldn't attribute it to any one event. At the end of the 5-year mission he'd been aboard Enterprise for what? 18 years? His two best friends weren't coming back- Kirk was promoted and McCoy left Starfleet. Spock expressed no desire to command, and that was what would have been in the cards for him. I think he was looking for his next challenge, and saw Kolinahr as a worthy effort- so he went for it.

Third season TOS. "The Paradise Syndrome" and "The Tholian Web". Spock got to see what commanding the Enterprise would be like and, after those events, figured that being Captain of the Enterprise wasn't for him.

So, he was trying to figure out what he wanted to do next. But he didn't have an answer right away...

The "Yesteryear" incident happens relatively late in the five-year mission so perhaps Spock's interactions with his younger self and Sarek and witnessing Vulcan society from a different perspective played roles in him deciding to pursue the Kolinahr? The events of that episode were pretty jarring for him and probably made him begin to view Vulcan's culture and how it treats both logic and emotion through a new filter.

... and his experience in "Yesteryear" gave him one. He should go back to Vulcan. The place where he was never fully accepted. And why wasn't he accepted? His human half. He would be accepted, in his mind, if he purged all remaining Human emotion.

Once Kirk and McCoy leave, and the Enterprise is stuck in drydock, waiting refit, that was his opening, and he decided to return to Vulcan.

No Kirk and no Spock means the spot for Captain is left wide open. That's where Captain Decker comes in.

Thanks, guys!

 

[Oddish]

The entire point of Section 31's appearances in DS9 is that they cannot be trusted to act in the Federation's best interests because they are accountable to no one.

I expect there are limits... if they went too far, people like Admiral Ross would stop looking the other way.

 

[Sci]

I expect there are limits... if they went too far, people like Admiral Ross would stop looking the other way.

You are contending that a criminal conspiracy is accountable to one of its co-conspirators?

I understand. You speak with certainty on something Trek has a conflict on.

I am looking at Star Trek as a whole. It's an interesting contrast of Trek's presentation on humanity.

Star Trek has always been very clear that systems of accountability must exist within institutions that exercise the power of the democratic state. Even when we see Our Heroes defying orders, they always return and make themselves accountable to the democratic state afterwards. One example: Kirk may have hijacked the Enterprise to resurrect Spock in ST3, but he returned to HQ and submitted to a court-martial in ST4.

 

[Oddish]

You are contending that a criminal conspiracy is accountable to one of its co-conspirators?

I'm saying that S31 would have a lot more trouble surviving if Starfleet higher ups weren't willing to get in bed with it. Like Ross did in "Inter Arma".

 

[fireproof78]

Star Trek has always been very clear that systems of accountability must exist within institutions that exercise the power of the democratic state.

That isn't my point.

But, I'm too tired to discuss further so you get to be right.

 

[Citiprime]

Star Trek has always been very clear that systems of accountability must exist within institutions that exercise the power of the democratic state. Even when we see Our Heroes defying orders, they always return and make themselves accountable to the democratic state afterwards. One example: Kirk may have hijacked the Enterprise to resurrect Spock in ST3, but he returned to HQ and submitted to a court-martial in ST4.

No, not "always."

Sisko has to live with the lie of his conspiracy from "In the Pale Moonlight" that was done for the greater good. Although, in that case, what Starfleet knows or doesn't know is questionable, since he was given some latitude to attempt faking the data rod for Vreenak. Whether Admiral Ross or someone at Starfleet ever put 2 and 2 together and realized the extent of Sisko's conspiracy, that's left open to speculation. But it's safe to believe the Federation and Starfleet had as much to lose as Sisko in the truth coming out.

Although, what I find really hard to believe, given the nature of Sisko's log in the episode, that he reported/confessed to a superior officer the extent of his actions and what happened.

I'm saying that S31 would have a lot more trouble surviving if Starfleet higher ups weren't willing to get in bed with it. Like Ross did in "Inter Arma".

One question I've had about Section 31, since the organization cites its authority coming from the original United Earth Starfleet charter, is Section 31's loyalty to Earth or the Federation as a whole? Earth is basically the heart of the Federation in almost every era that's been depicted on-screen, but if the interests of Earth and the Federation should diverge, would Section 31 move against other Federation members to increase Earth's influence and power?

 

[Sci]

No, not "always."

Sisko has to live with the lie of his conspiracy from "In the Pale Moonlight" that was done for the greater good. Although, in that case, what Starfleet knows or doesn't know is questionable, since he was given some latitude to attempt faking the data rod for Vreenak. Whether Admiral Ross or someone at Starfleet ever put 2 and 2 together and realized the extent of Sisko's conspiracy, that's left open to speculation. But it's safe to believe the Federation and Starfleet had as much to lose as Sisko in the truth coming out.

Although, what I find really hard to believe, given the nature of Sisko's log in the episode, that he reported/confessed to a superior officer the extent of his actions and what happened.

Command knew he was selling components for biogenic weapons in order to secure the services of a holo-con artist who could fake the recording of the Dominion planning to invade the Romulan Star Empire. They knew he hired Garak to help. They planned to present the faked evidence to Vrenak, and then they knew that the shuttle was destroyed and the holo-con artist died.

It doesn't take much to put together what happened. Starfleet Command knew, and more than likely so did the democratically-elected Federation President.

One question I've had about Section 31, since the organization cites its authority coming from the original United Earth Starfleet charter, is Section 31's loyalty to Earth or the Federation as a whole? Earth is basically the heart of the Federation in almost every era that's been depicted on-screen, but if the interests of Earth and the Federation should diverge, would Section 31 move against other Federation members to increase Earth's influence and power?

The answer, of course, is neither: As with all authoritarian conspiracies, Section 31's true allegiance is to Section 31.

 

[Finn]

Kirk had more children, and it's common knowledge by the TNG era. We just never heard about it on screen.