werent they in the deep space episode where the deep space 9 crew time traveled in the past and they encountered the captain kirk and his crew along with the tribbles
What is your opinion of season 3 as a whole?
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werent they in the deep space episode where the deep space 9 crew time traveled in the past and they encountered the captain kirk and his crew along with the tribbles
Well, no. Despite always being referred to as "television's first interracial kiss" there were in fact several interracial kisses on television prior. Hell, TOS had a few interracial kisses prior to Plato's Stepchildren.
factual is when I talk about a scene in the show or the series or sometimes gathering critics reviews. or do cross reference between SNW/TOS/AOS to see what is out of sync and call out the hypocrisy.
critics can be terrible but sometimes they pick up on a common theme. perception is reality.
SNW has some bad issues but when anyone is trying to discredit the kirk/uhura kiss just to stick to the masterpiece narrative of SNW the show is weaker than I thought.
reality: there have been arguments of what is TRULY the first interracial kiss but it is official the Kirk/Uhura is usually sited at the first.
trying to erase that to deflect the mistake this show made of putting a near 20 year age gap between the actors in the self proclaimed prequels when in TOS there was only a 3 year age gap between Kirk/Uhura actors would be more ridiculous than both kirk and spock dating a khan in SNW.
Next thing you will tell me is that SNW Chapel has more in common with TOS Chapel than AOS Uhura has more with TOS Uhura. the pathetic rewrite of trek lore to explain some of the nonsensical aspect of SNW gets more laughable.
I knew SNW like most recent trek content have issues but when we are now discrediting real social impact in the real world like the kirk/uhura kiss just to make SNW and its CW Level look better....then.... this is bad. very bad. too much illusion going on.
Well maybe they are talking prime time or between main cast characters.
Uhura wasn't part of TOS's main cast.
A factual or objective statement would be saying something like, "Spock was the XO of the Enterprise." A subjective statement or opinion would be saying something like, "Spock was the best XO of the Enterprise." I happen to think Spock was the best XO in the franchise... but that is my opinion. It's not a fact.factual is when I talk about a scene in the show or the series or sometimes gathering critics reviews. or do cross reference between SNW/TOS/AOS to see what is out of sync and call out the hypocrisy.
critics can be terrible but sometimes they pick up on a common theme. perception is reality.
SNW has some bad issues but when anyone is trying to discredit the kirk/uhura kiss just to stick to the masterpiece narrative of SNW the show is weaker than I thought.
reality: there have been arguments of what is TRULY the first interracial kiss but it is official the Kirk/Uhura is usually sited at the first.
trying to erase that to deflect the mistake this show made of putting a near 20 year age gap between the actors in the self proclaimed prequels when in TOS there was only a 3 year age gap between Kirk/Uhura actors would be more ridiculous than both kirk and spock dating a khan in SNW.
Next thing you will tell me is that SNW Chapel has more in common with TOS Chapel than AOS Uhura has more with TOS Uhura. the pathetic rewrite of trek lore to explain some of the nonsensical aspect of SNW gets more laughable.
I knew SNW like most recent trek content have issues but when we are now discrediting real social impact in the real world like the kirk/uhura kiss just to make SNW and its CW Level look better....then.... this is bad. very bad. too much illusion going on.
Here is an objective fact about Kirk and Uhura kissing in "PLATO'S STEPCHILDREN": it was forced on them by Parmen. That does not mean they had a potential for romance. And if you look at the other episodes of TOS, Kirk was NOT one to have a romance with anyone under his command.
Thank you for proving my point. You really don't know the meaning of the word "factual."
Now, here’s something that’s actually factual: the first interracial kiss on television was not on Star Trek.
Wishing something to be true doesn’t make it factual. The evidence clearly shows that there were multiple examples of interracial kisses on both American and international television programs well before “Plato’s Stepchildren” aired in November 1968.
I could’ve sworn the Fact Trek folks did an article on the Kirk/Uhura kiss, but I’m unable to find it.
I did, however, find this very thorough examination which has multiple instances of prior interracial kisses on television, dating back to Lucy and Desi in 1951:
fakehistoryhunter.net
I did, however, find this very thorough examination which has multiple instances of prior interracial kisses on television, dating back to Lucy and Desi in 1951:
NOT the first interracial kiss on TV
It is often said that the first interracial kiss on TV was the (involuntary) kiss between Captain James Tiberius Kirk (William Shatner) and translator and communications officer Nyota Uhura (Nichel…
fakehistoryhunter.net
I think I asked @Maurice about it once but I can't recall the answer. I had the same memory but I think it was more from discussions here than an actual article.I could’ve sworn the Fact Trek folks did an article on the Kirk/Uhura kiss, but I’m unable to find it.
I did, however, find this very thorough examination which has multiple instances of prior interracial kisses on television, dating back to Lucy and Desi in 1951:
NOT the first interracial kiss on TV
It is often said that the first interracial kiss on TV was the (involuntary) kiss between Captain James Tiberius Kirk (William Shatner) and translator and communications officer Nyota Uhura (Nichel…
ETA: thank you @Tallguy
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TV's First Interracial Kiss?
A blog dedicated to untangling 50 years of fact and legend about the making of the original Star Trek (NBC, 1966-69) using primary sources.
startrekfactcheck.blogspot.com
There it is, thank you! Forgot it was on Harvey’s old blog site.TV's First Interracial Kiss?
A blog dedicated to untangling 50 years of fact and legend about the making of the original Star Trek (NBC, 1966-69) using primary sources.
As a POC please I find this kind of ignorance laughable. Lt Uhura was the first black female character to get a prominent role on TV in the 1960s as NOT a slave or a mammy stereotype.
she was iconic and a trail blazer and while the show was Kirk and Spock. She was part of the ensemble. Definitely more important than Chapel and Rand.
Also Considering Martin Luther King wrote to Nichelle and told her to stay on the show because her presence just been there was having an impact on TV. Erasing Uhura's history in TOS because you cannot handle the criticism of how SNW chose to handle the character by 2020s is almost offending me but as a POC I can take this kind of talk in fandom. I have been doing this for years.
The core cast of TOS are
Kirk
Spock
Mccoy
Uhura
Scotty
Chekov
Sulu
This is the ensemble, it is why even in the reboot they stuck with this 7 characters. to erase Uhura is subtle just reflects poorly on SNW reception not TOS.
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I said it is often sighted as the first officially but one of the memorable of the first. though the bigger issue in 2025 is why both Uhura/Una do not get to do much.
One, it's cited.
Two, they've done plenty as members of an ensemble, which is more than Uhura ever did in TOS, given that Nichols was considering leaving the show.
There, often citing scaring example is still wrong. It's a terrible feather in the cap to of a loudly proclaimed progressive show to force a kiss.
Your lack of understanding as to how television worked in the 60’s is utterly apparent. Star Trek was never an ensemble show. Shatner and Nimoy were the two leads, Kelley was eventually bumped up. Everyone else were contracted recurring roles, which is reflected in multiple memos I and others have read in Gene Roddenberry’s and Bob Justman’s papers at UCLA.
Nichols had a prominent role because of the societal implications of a professional Black woman in a significant post on the Bridge, but in terms of television production, she was not on the same level as the series leads.
Star Trek was never an ensemble show. Shatner and Nimoy were the stars out the gate, and Kelley was pushed up into star status beginning in the second season. There was no parity there for the rest of the cast, who were featured players, easily written out of episodes as circumstances dictated, and several of whom didn't have contracts at all but handshake deals. Nichols was under an actual contract only once, for the front half of season two.
Two, Uhura was not the first Black woman in a non-stereotypical recurring role on US TV. Quoting from our article, Uhura, Black to the Future:
As we've said repeatedly, being the first isn't as important as being influential. East Side/West Side ran only one season and is largely forgotten, but Star Trek's still around and millions saw a Black woman as part of an aspirational future, and that's what actually mattered.
Two, Uhura was not the first Black woman in a non-stereotypical recurring role on US TV. Quoting from our article, Uhura, Black to the Future:
As to MLK influencing Nichols, how and when that happened isn't clear, as Nichols' own accounts aren't always in agreement. Ande Kindryd (née Richardson) told us she recall Nichols excitedly telling her about meeting King, so that supports her having met him, but the circumstances are unclear, thus we have only Nichols' accounts to go on.
As we've said repeatedly, being the first isn't as important as being influential. East Side/West Side ran only one season and is largely forgotten, but Star Trek's still around and millions saw a Black woman as part of an aspirational future, and that's what actually mattered.
The pedantic "a-ha, there were actually a number of other prior interracial kisses" stuff over the last page is really lame. The Kirk-Uhura kiss has stuck in the cultural memory, it's entirely fair to suggest that it's influential and point out that it's often cited as the first, even if it isn't literally the first.
It's like if someone said "Wolfenstein 3D was the first FPS" and then everyone took turns listing every obscure, forgotten prior game that could theoretically qualify ("aha, you haven't even considered 1990's Castle Master!"). Yep, congratulations, you're technically correct, but a reasonable person would still be able to understand that speaker was relaying a cultural touchstone rather than offering a forensic analysis of the entire history of the medium.
Uhura was obviously a major presence too even if she got very little material in the show itself; TAS saw fit to boost her role substnantially, Pocket Books novels often focused on her (Uhura's Song, Tears of the Singers, etc), early videogames like Judgment Rites centred stories around her, and the TOS films considered her a key figure.
It's like if someone said "Wolfenstein 3D was the first FPS" and then everyone took turns listing every obscure, forgotten prior game that could theoretically qualify ("aha, you haven't even considered 1990's Castle Master!"). Yep, congratulations, you're technically correct, but a reasonable person would still be able to understand that speaker was relaying a cultural touchstone rather than offering a forensic analysis of the entire history of the medium.
Uhura was obviously a major presence too even if she got very little material in the show itself; TAS saw fit to boost her role substnantially, Pocket Books novels often focused on her (Uhura's Song, Tears of the Singers, etc), early videogames like Judgment Rites centred stories around her, and the TOS films considered her a key figure.
By 60s standard Uhura was a big deal.
By the 2000s I think the character was just fully more realised with Zoe Saldana. in the reboot movies which is the most main stream trek content we have gotten since maybe DS9. Saldana Uhura is the main lead female in all 3 films. there were other female characters like Amanda, Carol and Jayal in the series but Uhura was the central point and that made sense because in TOS Between Uhura Chapel and Rand. Uhura was most popular and well liked by fans.
I think this is why she got to star in all 6 films of TOS and tend to be the only female character in many TOS Collections or memorabilias. Chapel is not even in the reboot movies because Chapel was not that relevant enough to give attention. she only gets a mention. Janice Rand is not mentioned either.
So clearly to the critics who point out that in SNW Uhura is just a background character, they are doing this because they know the character history and SNW does not match it. it is a retcon that does not benefit such an iconic character.
more importunely I fault the creators of the show. They made a core mistake in using the ''names'' of this characters but never intended for them to have much resemblance to their TOS version.
I feel the creators of this show did not care or do any research about Uhura or even what made her iconic. they just wanted their young one innocent stand in pov and they used the name of uhura, so they get the same result as they did with Adira or even with Soji from Picard. yeal all 3 (soji/adira/uura) are like the same characters. who all now turn out to be not really popular and unmemorable characters and are no where getting much attention or heavy lifting as the other more mature adult characters that will always get the better story lines.
I say this as a poc but Uhura should never have been the ''kid'' in the group. big mistake.
The reality is if you know nothing about Star Trek and you only saw SNW you would not think much of Uhura at least not compared to Chapel or freaking Laan who is a new character. Uhura was not needed in SNW and if they wanted her there they should have found an actor at least in their early 40s or late 30s to play the role with the magnetic screen persona and strong charisma as Nichelle Nichols. which if were to be honest is what made TOS Uhura also popular because she did not really do as much as the boys.
Celia must have been like 19 or 20 when the show started. what were they thinking when Paul was already pushing 40. making her that young rewrites a lot. I just looked at the age of Jess Bush and she is 33 years old so that even makes her almost 10 years older than Celia. Laan actress is also near 40.
really we are watching a star trek show where chapel does look and acts 10 years younger than Uhura when we know in TOS, Uhura was the one who could handle a conversation better and acted more mature?
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