To be fair, I thought the Vulcans always came off as patronizing. YMMV.
What is your honest opinion of Enterprise?
- Thread starter indolover
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To be fair, I thought the Vulcans always came off as patronizing. YMMV.
I always found TOS Vulcans to be patronizing as well. While I love what Mark Lenard did with Sarek, he did come off as highly patronizing toward Humans. The same was true of T'Pau in Amok Time.
The Xindi arc? Even the Dominion War wasn't that tightly constructed. Trek had never had anything like that before.
While I agree that the first two seasons were little more than VOY done better, the last two seasons were something a lot more, and better.
Saquist
Commodore
Season 3
2. Voyager episode
3 Virus that retro's that's TNG
16. Crew in Stasis and two people pilot the ship VOY-hello
Season 4
At least 5 or 6 episodes were copies of concepts from the other Trek episodes like the Nazis, augments, Mirror universe and the last episode.
Then the Vulcan episodes were just cleaning up the mess they made in Season One by making the Vulcans unnecessarily hostile....with the fans wigging out on it they had to fix is somehow..
I have to say as responses go...the producers did listen eventually....
ENT was flawed from the beginning. They should have realized that...because the First Season is a commitment if you screw it up and you're too hard headed to admit it you're going to screw up season 2. Where I congratulate them on is finishing the Xindi crap quickly. Season 4 was a patch job. That's when it got interesting for Trek Fans but the general public was very disinterested in the show already.
The show had no wow factor from the beginning.
It may have been doomed whether or not the fans supported them. That only expedited the cancellation.
2. Voyager episode
3 Virus that retro's that's TNG
16. Crew in Stasis and two people pilot the ship VOY-hello
Season 4
At least 5 or 6 episodes were copies of concepts from the other Trek episodes like the Nazis, augments, Mirror universe and the last episode.
Then the Vulcan episodes were just cleaning up the mess they made in Season One by making the Vulcans unnecessarily hostile....with the fans wigging out on it they had to fix is somehow..
I have to say as responses go...the producers did listen eventually....
ENT was flawed from the beginning. They should have realized that...because the First Season is a commitment if you screw it up and you're too hard headed to admit it you're going to screw up season 2. Where I congratulate them on is finishing the Xindi crap quickly. Season 4 was a patch job. That's when it got interesting for Trek Fans but the general public was very disinterested in the show already.
The show had no wow factor from the beginning.
It may have been doomed whether or not the fans supported them. That only expedited the cancellation.
Overall, I'd give Enterprise a 5-6 with the final season being maybe a 7.
So people are watching Trek for something other than entertainment?
It's not like this is experimental French cinema or something. It's genre entertainment. At times, it's thrilling, thought-provoking TV. But let's not make it into something it's not.
^ Exactly, that's the only reason I watch Star Trek - to be entertained.
Saquist
Commodore
I hope that isn't a Revelation.
Mindless entertainment can be found anywhere. Sci Fi used to be for the intellect inclined. Learning and intrigue..yes...believe it or not some people usually adults watch for other reasons other than numbing the synapses.
I hate to break it to you, Star Trek isn't as high-brow as you seem to think it is. I say this as a life-long Star Trek and science fiction fan.
Trek is a lot of things, but intellectually challenging isn't one of them.
Your argument that what other people (by implication, I'm guessing that means me, since you're responding to me) like is "mindless entertainment," while only a truly discriminating mind like yours can appreciate "learning and intrigue," seems to be an emotional one that isn't borne out by any objective criteria.
It may be important for you to feel that way, but don't be surprised that other people don't agree with you when you say, "What I like is deep and thoughtful, but what you like is shallow pulp."
You don't like ENT, fine, but it's not a departure from some Golden Age of High Art.
Trek is a lot of things, but intellectually challenging isn't one of them.
Your argument that what other people (by implication, I'm guessing that means me, since you're responding to me) like is "mindless entertainment," while only a truly discriminating mind like yours can appreciate "learning and intrigue," seems to be an emotional one that isn't borne out by any objective criteria.
It may be important for you to feel that way, but don't be surprised that other people don't agree with you when you say, "What I like is deep and thoughtful, but what you like is shallow pulp."
You don't like ENT, fine, but it's not a departure from some Golden Age of High Art.
^ What do you mean? Star Trek has given us nothing but high brow entertainment.
Like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7XtWzkXkLA&feature=related
Like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7XtWzkXkLA&feature=related
Its my third favorite, after TOS and DS9. Over all I'd give it a 8. Like it more than VOY and most of TNG.
Yeah, its a prequel to TNG as well as TOS. How could it not be? The bulk of Trek canon is based in the TNG era. It would be foolish to pretend it didnt happen. Still ENT gave us enough TOS references to prove its connection to TOS. If it stepped on the fanon toes, tough.
Yeah, its a prequel to TNG as well as TOS. How could it not be? The bulk of Trek canon is based in the TNG era. It would be foolish to pretend it didnt happen. Still ENT gave us enough TOS references to prove its connection to TOS. If it stepped on the fanon toes, tough.
Saquist
Commodore
That's really a matter of how high brow you think that I think it is.
You mean subjective... and no that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying Star Trek was mostly intellectual at one time but now caters to mindless entertainment.
TOS, TNG, VOY really did a good job at smarter entertainment.
DS9 was purely drama and ENT tried to do the same...and despite the early period in space travel they chose to dwell on bad drama and mindless entertainment factors like catsuits and needless disconnected angst.
Don't get me wrong. I don't need a consensus to appreciate smart writing. It's what I grew up on. It is what is. Trek's current direction will cater more to what the majority of people and that is mindless entertainment. Network execs know the people want mindless entertainment, and Movie Producers know the people want mindless entertainment and the people don't ask for anything else so the result is movies like Star Trek XI.
More than you know. It's not the only reason why the show failed but it is part of the systemic problem. That is the same problem that continued from the lush-like writing of Voyager 7th season. It is the same systemic problem for 4 really lack luster TNG Movies over the last 8 years.
That was not the tradition of Star Trek TNG
That was not the tradition of Star Trek Movies I, II, III,IV and VI.
That wasn't even the tradition of The Original Series.
Of course it wasn't in the tradition of those previous series and movies, nor should it have been nor should it have tried to have been. To me, that's a part of the problem with later trek incarnations, they tried to follow the 'tradition' or formula of what came before. No wonder Trek has become stale.
As for my 'honest opinion of Enterprise' I love the show; yes, it has it's problems (and I freely admit this), but I love the show. I hate it when I see others trying to act as if I am not a "true" Star Trek fan, because I don't treat this show like it's the anti-Christ.
As for my 'honest opinion of Enterprise' I love the show; yes, it has it's problems (and I freely admit this), but I love the show. I hate it when I see others trying to act as if I am not a "true" Star Trek fan, because I don't treat this show like it's the anti-Christ.
Folks, let's stick to expressing opinions of the show, and not the people who watch the show -- who might, heaven forbid, have a different opinion than you do.
If someone doesn't agree with you, who cares? It doesn't change anyone's view if you pass judgment or apply some denigrating label to the "opposing side"; it just makes you look smaller for being intolerant. All opinions have value to those who hold them.
IDIC, okay?
If someone doesn't agree with you, who cares? It doesn't change anyone's view if you pass judgment or apply some denigrating label to the "opposing side"; it just makes you look smaller for being intolerant. All opinions have value to those who hold them.
IDIC, okay?
I agree with you on the linda park, but i have only seen season 1 and that gets a 4/10. probably going to try to find the other seasons but i am not the most enthusiatic about it.
I give Season 1 a 7 of 10
Season 2 a 6 of 10
Season 3 a 5 of 10
Season 4 an 8 of 10
Each season of each Trek series has had stinkers, no exception here.
I love the concept more than the execution. I blame writing for the shortcomings. The writers were so used to using the Trek conventions of series past that they couldn't see past them to do things very different. The Producers may have directed this, I can't say.
Major nits that bothered me:
1. Transporters being used for people
2. Calling their weapons "phase" anything or "Torpedo" anything.
3. Universal translators
4. Establishing rules early on that they then cast aside when the drama of the story required it.
5. Meeting the Klingons in episode 1.
6. Humans using forcefields when it suits the plot, then forgetting how in later eps.
7. A Vulcan Science Officer.
Season 2 a 6 of 10
Season 3 a 5 of 10
Season 4 an 8 of 10
Each season of each Trek series has had stinkers, no exception here.
I love the concept more than the execution. I blame writing for the shortcomings. The writers were so used to using the Trek conventions of series past that they couldn't see past them to do things very different. The Producers may have directed this, I can't say.
Major nits that bothered me:
1. Transporters being used for people
2. Calling their weapons "phase" anything or "Torpedo" anything.
3. Universal translators
4. Establishing rules early on that they then cast aside when the drama of the story required it.
5. Meeting the Klingons in episode 1.
6. Humans using forcefields when it suits the plot, then forgetting how in later eps.
7. A Vulcan Science Officer.
Saquist
Commodore
Like I said, Mileage will vary.
It's not so much important what others think from a personal point of view but what you find acceptable.
My particular point of view is that I prefer a smart, intelligent show with smart intelligent writing. I don't always get that from Trek because it's network TV but ENT was not smart or intelligent or well written...at all.
The producers knew how the numbers worked...they added lots of CGI, questionable sexual connotations and a few times some questionable moral implication with out making the characters good. It didnt' appeal to even the standard group.
With a pilot that started off at 12.5 MILLION and ending that year with a 5.3 million is the largest drop I've ever seen in one year.
I think Enterprise was a good show that could have been great. I think season one was possibly better than TNG's first season episode for episode. Somehow they got minor things wrong like T'pol's eyebrows. Phase cannons or phasers should never have been in this show and transporters should only have been used for cargo and it should have taken 10 minutes to beam something up like in "The Cage", which would have been funny having Trip start transporting something onto the ship and we come back after the commercial break and he is just finishing the transport.
