Spoilers What is the connection between Doctor Soong and Khan Singh?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Charles Phipps, May 27, 2022.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If the Supermen were smart enough to anticipate Time Travel, then they were smart enough to not keep historical records, and leave behind fake historical records that are traps intended to murder any intervention from the future.
     
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  2. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Except again, in Space Seed Spock said Eugenics Wars was the last word war in the mid-1990s.

    So was Spock lying?
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ But weren't you the one who was just saying we're just supposed to write it off? At least I'm still trying to fit "Space Seed" into continuity without decanonizing it. :shrug:
     
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  4. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wasn't trying to decanonize the episode. Changing one fact doesn't decanonize the episode, it just retcons that line, and what Khan said in WoK.

    I was just following your own rules you seemed to have set previously.

    TNG onwards moved the last World War into the 21st Century, contradicting what Spock said in Space Seed.

    How is that any different from what SNW and PIC Season 2's creators did with the Eugenics War(s)?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2022
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  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No one is trying to decanonize anything. Just pointing out inconsistencies that already existed.
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Here's how I rationalized that: Perhaps there was a debate over whether or not the Eugenics Wars 'counted' as World War III or not.

    Meaning: There were those who DID consider them a World War (from 1992 to 1996), and therefore the war in 2053 would be called World War IV.

    Conversely, there could also be a faction which (just roll with me on this) did NOT consider the 1992-96 conflicts to be a true 'world war', and thus only counted the 2053 war as WW III.

    It's a stretch, I fully admit it. But it's not like it doesn't have SOME precedent; for example, some poeple IRL count the Cold War as World War III, and others obviously do not...
     
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  7. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Spock said the last World War was in the 90s. Saying there was 4th one in 21st Century would still contradict that.

    There's no way to spin that to make it make sense. It's just a retcon. That's fine, not everything has to make sense. It's a fictional TV show, not a documentary.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
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  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. Spock makes a declarative statement and then TNG changes it and VOY adds to it. Fans can reconcile however they want but let's not grasp pearls over SNW.
     
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  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not if Spock was a member of the faction which claimed that the 1992-96 Eugenics Wars were WW3 and the one in 2053 was WW4. It would just be an example of his personal beliefs.

    Just trying to salvage the situation. :sigh:
     
  10. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If he believed that than he's contradicting himself by saying the 1990s was the era of the last World War.

    It doesn't need salvaging.
     
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  11. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Speak for yourself.

    I mean, how can you watch TWOK or "Space Seed" now, knowing that they're...wrong? :(
     
  12. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Same way I can watch the rest of the franchise.

    Because it's a fictional TV series, not real life. Not a documentary.
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I've been told TOS is wrong since 6th grade.

    I move on because it is not a documentary requiring strict literalism.
     
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  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So this is what it's come to, then? We've given up all hope of a single, consistent, unified timeline?

    Does the phrase "prime timeline" even have any fucking MEANING anymore? :(
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hasn't since TMP and TWOK.

    I gave up a while ago, I think around Encounter at Farpoint.
     
  16. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Star Trek has never been consistent.
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It could try.
     
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  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why break up tradition?
     
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Some traditions deserve to be broken.
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wish you luck.
     
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