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It's in the eye of the beholder, real Trek is whatever you wish it to be.
For instance, I'm not a big fan of TOS, I've watched it and whilst I don't dislike it, for me it doesn't hold a candle to the shows that come after it.
So because I don't consider TOS 'Real' Trek, doesn't mean others can't.
I doubt my love for Voyager and Enterprise over TOS is replicated in any great numbers on here or in wider Trek fandom, but for me it's more real than TOS ever was.
You and I both know that I was challenged to watch the nuTrek movies so I would have an informed position from which to say I didn't like it.
So fine. I watched it. I still don't like it.
Same with Disco. I didn't watch all the episodes, but I saw enough to know that I don't like it.
This is where these kind of threads inevitably lead. People declaring their opinions as facts, trying to use subjective measurements to make objective declarations (e.g. the idea that Voyager is more popular because it has more fan fiction is ludicrous on its face). People actually getting mad because they don't like something other people do.
Where did I say that Voyager is more popular because it's got more fanfic written about it? My point is that Voyager can't be blamed for "killing" Star Trek, given that there are still a lot of people who are actively doing Voyager-related fan activities.
As for people getting mad because they don't like something other people do, turn that around. I was trolled and flamed on this site for YEARS because I'm not shy about saying I don't like nuTrek. You'd think I'd kicked their collective favorite grandmothers, or something.
I'm perfectly aware that we all have different and varied preferences. My point here is that it's not fair to blame Voyager for "killing" Star Trek. Enterprise had its chance and blew it. So blame Enterprise for TV and blame TNG for the movies.
I'm perfectly aware that we all have different and varied preferences. My point here is that it's not fair to blame Voyager for "killing" Star Trek. Enterprise had its chance and blew it. So blame Enterprise for TV and blame TNG for the movies.
While I might disagree on other points, I do completely agree with this point. TNG films were largely uninspired. Even if others don't like Abrams Trek, it certainly sat much better than the last TNG films.
Voyager isn't singularly responsible for the demise of so-called "Berman-era" Star Trek, but the existence of a core group of fan fiction enthusiasts doesn't alter the fact that ratings did drop during VOY, just as they did over all of the other post-TNG series of that era.
Nothing really to single out VOY for, though; it was all real Star Trek. The public at large was just becoming less and less interested in keeping up with all post-TNG "Berman-era" Trek, the corollary to which is that the active audience consisted more and more exclusively of hardcore fans. And the longer it went on, the closer to the inevitable conclusion of unsustainability things got. Extend that trend long enough and that was going to happen no matter which of the three (DS9, VOY, or ENT) went last. None of the three could turn it around.
The clowns eventually took over the circus when they stopped the open submission policy. Braga knew it was over when he saw Coto come in and just take over. Braga never having seen TOS didn't make him a good series creator. Poor guy had to fight just to get an ear piece for Hoshi. Can you imagine. Berman was a wet blanket.
I don't know anything about what you've been challenged to do, but at least you went in with an open mind....
Where did I say that Voyager is more popular because it's got more fanfic written about it? My point is that Voyager can't be blamed for "killing" Star Trek, given that there are still a lot of people who are actively doing Voyager-related fan activities.
That still doesn't make any sense. The two are completely unrelated, and there are no actual facts involved.
I do agree that Voyager is not responsible for killing Star Trek. I think it's very clear what killed Star Trek.
Nothing. It is still alive and well.
My point here is that it's not fair to blame Voyager for "killing" Star Trek. Enterprise had its chance and blew it. So blame Enterprise for TV and blame TNG for the movies.
You were part of that conversation, so that's why I mentioned it.
Granted, it was over 5 years ago, so you probably don't remember. I honestly did try to find a way to overcome my dislike for the parts of nuTrek I dislike, but it just isn't happening.
Ditto Disco. Redo the series to either get rid of the "Klingons" or make them into a totally different species and less like a Doctor Who monster that speeeeaaaakkkssssssss.... veeeerrrrryyyyy..... sssssslllllllooooowwwwlllllyyyyy..... with subtitles, no less, so you're so damn busy reading that you aren't paying attention to what's actually happening (not that I really want to look at the "Klingons", come to think of it)... and it would have been more tolerable. And they should just admit that this is a sequel to Enterprise, rather than a prequel to TOS (which Enterprise wasn't really, either), and it's not in TOS's timeline. If the series lasts long enough to introduce "Kirk" it won't be the same Kirk from TOS; it will be some caricature, the way their "Sarek" is a caricature.
That still doesn't make any sense. The two are completely unrelated, and there are no actual facts involved.
Kindly stop putting words on my keyboard. It's a fact that there are over 9.7 K Voyager stories on fanfiction.net. It's a fact that there are many other fanfic sites around the internet. It's a fact that I've got an entire very large shelf in my home that holds print 'zines (fanzines in print form - the way people did things before the internet).
If Voyager had "killed" Star Trek, people would no longer be interested in anything to do with Star Trek, and that's obviously not so, because we're all still here, arguing about it and doing whatever other fan activities we do (such as reading and writing fanfic, among many other activities). There would not have been any other TV series or movies (as awful as they were and are).
I do agree that Voyager is not responsible for killing Star Trek. I think it's very clear what killed Star Trek.
Not really. Discovery may not be my cup of Klingon coffee, but the older stuff is every bit "hit-or-miss" as Discovery or the Abrams films are. The rose-colored nostalgia glasses only make the newer stuff seem worse.
Star Trek did die, it arguably began with DS9 and VOY and INS being in production together for a while, it continued on through VOY and then the death keal was ENT and NEM.
It's gotten better since but still not in rude health.
I like Discovery as much as TOS... buuuuuut I know how to pick my battles. Not every thread in every forum is the time or place for it. I'm not going to spend the next several years arguing with people over whether or not it's "Real Star Trek!!!!!! TEH CANON!!!!!!111111" It would turn into a full-time job.
