What if TNG took place immediately after TUC?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by dswynne1, Jul 1, 2020 at 10:33 AM.

  1. dswynne1

    dswynne1 Captain Captain

    Nov 5, 2013
    I always thought that GR wanted to put some distance between the TOS era and his TNG era in order to have more creative control. That being said, instead of the TNG era taking place some 76 years after Kirk's historic 5-year mission, what if TNG took place right after Kirk and crew completed their last mission aboard the Enterprise-A, and then Picard and his crew picked things up on the Enterprise-B as "the next generation" of Starfleet officers in a post-Khitomer Accords era? Would we still have the same sort of stories being told? Would the crew dynamic be even the same? Maybe, instead of a Worf joining Starfleet, we have a "Colonel Worf" assigned to the Enterprise-B as the official Klingon liaison/attache, as a new era of exploration occurs. You know, peaceful cooperation? I do wonder how the movie GEN would turn out, if Picard and Kirk were more like contemporaries, being closer in age within the context of the lore. Thoughts?
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  2. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Sep 28, 2009
    I would still have Kirk being killed off on the launch of the E-B, in order to bring in the distinction between the two series and restrict guest appearances to the limited few we got in TNG. I would love to see an Excelsior-Class take center stage, so that works for me.

    As for characters:
    • Captain Picard wouldn't be much changed very much a diplomat and statesman, representing the best Starfleet and the Federation has to offer, whilst also getting used to a new galaxy with the Khitomer Accords in place.
    • Commander Riker would be the swashbuckling young XO, who wants to be the next Kirk and sees serving on the E-B as getting him there quicker.
    • Lt. Commander Troi would be the Communications Officer, her rank would also see her being the Second Officer. I'd also be tempted to make her fully Betazoid, as her human side never really brought anything to the character other than limiting her.
    • Lieutenant (jg) Data would be the Science Officer. I would also make him more in line with Xon, in that he would be very new to being around humans, to make his "blank slate" demeanor make sense, and wants to learn from them.
    • Commander Crusher would be the widow of Picard's best friend, who he always carried a flame for, which leads to tension between them. Her marriage to Jack never resulted in any children.
    • Lt. Commander La Forge would start out as Chief Engineer from day one. He is pretty much unchanged, being Data's closest friend and helps him in his quest to become more human.
    • Lieutenant Yar is the Security Chief, again pretty much unchanged from a failed colony, grew up hardened by it. Though she would survive the first season.
    • Ensign Wezlee is the Navigator. An alien who is young and brilliant, a genius by anyone's standards. He can still save the day on a regular basis though now he's actually an officer then at least it makes sense and not constantly showing up the officers.
    • Lieutenant (jg) Ro serves as Helm Officer. A Bajoran who ran away from the occupation of her homeworld and managed to scrap into Starfleet. She has an issue with authority, but Picard sees promise in her so takes a chance on her--much to the chagrin of Riker and Yar.

    I left a resident Klingon out of the cast as the Empire is in shambles with the destruction of Praxis and trying to maintain its bolster and pomp, even with the peace treaty in place. Colonel Worf might be a recurring character and point of contact for the E-B crew, especially when they enter Klingon space to help with stablising Qo'noS' atmosphere (though that would be most likely in the 3-4 season).
  3. somebuddyx

    somebuddyx Captain Captain

    Nov 14, 2014
    It's a good thought experiment for in-universe putting the Enterprise-D crew on the B but I don't think you could have the same happen for the production universe where the TV show changes the setting.
    You could probably adapt a lot of the episodes to just be in 2294 and just imagine everyone in the maroon uniforms. There could still be families and kids on the B because it would make as much sense as it did them being on the D. You can still do crap Ferengi stories with them as new fuckwit antagonists who no one takes seriously even the goddamn writers writing the script for fucks sake how are we supposed to take the Ferengi seriously if they didn't and had them jumping around like dicks on the T'Kon planet or whatever happened. The episode 'The Emissary' would make the popsicle Klingons as antagonists make more sense since if their ship were launched at the same date it is only ten years old not eighty, unless you move back the launch date to 2214 to keep the eighty year launch date.
    Worf is an interesting character to play with in these type of universes. If you want to set him apart visually you keep him in a version of the Klingon armour and he's an exchange officer like Kurn was and maybe try to give him an army rank and if he's young maybe a junior rank like Sgt or Corporal. I think putting him in the maroon uniform would be a mistake but it's an option. The DC Star Trek comics had a Klingon officer called Konom predating Worf who wore a maroon uniform.
    Data would be the same. Troi would be Ilia. Riker would be Decker. Geordi would be the same. Crusher would be the same. Tasha would be the same. Wesley would be the same.
  4. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

    Dec 15, 2012
    Except that the ent-D concept (crew with families heading out in the unknown) might be slightly more believable after a near century of no major threats to the Federation (there were the Cardassian wars, but these probably were only regional events). I can't really see Starfleet come up with such an idea only 5 years after the Klingons stopped being a menace to the Federation.
  5. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 14, 2016
    A important part of Troi was to have her abilities limited, otherwise episodes would be five minutes long.
  6. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 19, 2013
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    It almost was. Paramount produced a proposal around the time of STIV for a series set not too far in the future based around a different crew. I believe it was discussed at some point on Larry Nemicek's TrekFiles podcast.
  7. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Commander Red Shirt

    Feb 15, 2012
    Would they though? Very few episodes would have hinged on Troi being a full telepath.

    Would BOTW have been rendered a ten minute two-partner because Troi could read minds? Would any number of others? Nah.
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  8. dswynne1

    dswynne1 Captain Captain

    Nov 5, 2013
    One more thing...

    If, in current lore, Picard took command of the Enterprise-D at the age of 59 y/o, I wonder if Picard, in this "what if" scenario commanded a Constitution-class (pre-refit), a Constitution-class (refit), a Miranda-class or some other class of Federation starship, before assuming command of the Enterprise-B? The only thing that I could find that would be comparable would be the USS Constellation NCC-1017, but that was under the command of Commodore Decker (TOS: "Doomsday Machine"). Maybe Picard would take command over the refit version? Or, in this alt-scenario, it was Picard who lost the ship while stopping the Doomsday Machine (instead of Kirk). Hmmm...
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  9. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Oct 19, 2014
    Which they never really did; Troi could "sense" the feelings of people on a planet while the Enterprise was in orbit.
    Even full telepathy doesn't have to be a story killer (I know I bring that up every time, but the X-men have lots of telepathy, Babylon 5 had telepathy etc.)
    You just have to properly limit and define what that telepathy can and can't do.
  10. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 7, 2011
    Aug 10, 1999
    I'm glad TNG took place when it did. For three reasons:

    1) I like the Excelsior, but not as a Hero Ship.

    2) The Galaxy Class looks like it would come out a lot more than 10 years after the Excelsior, which was state-of-the-art in the TOS Movies.

    3) Klingons and Romulans hate each other in TNG. A lifetime of hatred that makes the idea of peace and cooperation between them sound impossible. You need a lifetime for that to happen. 70 years will give you that. Before someone corrects me, half a lifetime for them. You know what I'm getting at. ;)
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 9:35 PM
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  11. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Dec 11, 2015
    Why do you state that TNG took place "some 76 years after Kirk's historic 5-year mission"?

    What evidence do you have for that claim?

    In post number 148 at: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-chronology.304218/page-8#post-13440440 I discuss the various statements about the elapsed time between TNG and various TOS era movies and episodes.

    The specific context was a suggestion by Henoch in post # 147 in the same thread that the events of Kirk's five year mission might have been spread out over much more than five years, which would in my opinion explain the changes in the setting of TOS during that period. Various changes made by the production staff during the first season seemed to make the second part of the first season and the later seasons happen in a setting where space exploration is much farther advanced and there is contact with many more alien civilizations.

    I discussed my theory in post number 73 on page 4: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-chronology.304218/page-4

    Anyway, I listed all of the TOS to TNG, TOS to dS9, and TOS to VOY, time spans I could find mentioned. If you know of any others, please let me know.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 8:32 PM
  12. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 15, 2009
    Let's say it's set in 2293, Picard was what? 55 at the start? So born in 2238.. So hed be 27
    7 years younger than Kirk in 2265.
    5-6 years in service so hed be a Lt at the time. Getting a ship 2275? So maybe a miranda.. Or a brand new constellation? Maybe even the Stargazer!

    So close to 20 years on the stargazzer, all the same stuff happen, Jack dead, Beverly with wesly, maybe a bit older so he can be a cadet on the Ent B instead of a kid..

    Could still do worf, still raised by humans etc. And after khitomer he's the first klingon etc. Only thus time he faces racism etc from people who are used to hating klingon.

    It could work with small very changes.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 11:42 PM
  13. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Moderator

    Jan 20, 2016
    Limit a telepathic range, that would work, she can read minds as long as persons was in the same room as her or within 2 metres or something.
    Picard might be less preachy as a 23rd century captain, and the PD would not mean let civilisations die
  14. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Oct 19, 2014
    Also make it so that it's a conscious effort to read somebody's mind, instead of her passively receiving the emotions/thoughts of others. Make it so that if she wants an information she really has to search somebody's mind for it, and so that a person who's mind she is reading might very well notice it and can "keep her out" with training/effort.

    As to the rest...a 23rd century Next Gen would probably not have Worf in the beginning. Maybe in season 2 or 3 as part of an Officer Exchange Program with the Federation's new allies.
    Though what makes me wonder, with Picard canonically being 59 in Season 1 of TNG...wouldn't that make hima bout the same age as Kirk? They might very well know each other then.

    What I can very much see is that there would be a very hopeful, optimistic tone to the whole series, since they would finally be at peace with the Klingons after such a long time of war/cold war.
    I can see them using the same uniforms, because they might introduce them as a reaction to the Kithomer Accords, moving away from the military maroon.
    As recurring bad guys I can still see them using both Romulans, as well as rebellious Klingons who broke away from the Empire.
  15. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 15, 2009
    Troi, Communications, First contact specialist, Concierge?? Like, if the Enterprise is hosting something then Troi would be the person in charge of planning etc..
    Just don't let her at Helm.. Bad things happen... :nyah:

    Where would Riker be? Tos days there wasn't a 2nd or 3rd seat... Spock, Tpol, Una were at a station..
    What station??

    With the Klingons.. Maybe a fracture of the High Councel? Individual houses may attack the Federation??
  16. dswynne1

    dswynne1 Captain Captain

    Nov 5, 2013
    Oops! Thank you for the correction. I was off by nearly twenty years. That's what I get for posting in the middle of a sleepless night... :biggrin:
  17. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 7, 2011
    Aug 10, 1999
    This worked for TUC, when Kirk and crew were forced to look at Klingons differently for the first time, but I think on an ongoing TV series it would get old really fast. Because given the time-frame, Worf would have to deal with this every time he went whatever way in the Federation and would take it from Starfleet Officers at every turn. It's hard to respect a crew who acts like a collection of Archie Bunkers every single week.
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  18. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 15, 2009
    @Lord Garth
    Semi typical trope fish out of water, having to prove one self, guys hating you for. Something in the past, species etc.
    But your right, can't last so probably Picard trust him, some rando crew angry at father/uncle dying in the disco war Etc. Till he proves he's trustworthy etc. Take a few episodes, maybe even the first one after an attack by klingon in the first episode. Word proves himself, respect if crew etc. Occasional episode with a dick admiral, or other klingon seeing him as a traitor etc.

    Edit: I say etc. To much..:klingon:
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  19. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Tomorrow Never Knows Premium Member

    Nov 4, 2001
    Here, There and Everywhere
    I don't think the show would be all that different. The writers would probably come up with the same cast of characters. One year or seventy-six between the shows aren't going to make a difference. There would probably be an impact on episodes like "Sarek" and "Relics", which seem to hinge on the characters being older and out of touch. OTOH it makes appearances by TOS characters much easier.

    I don't see Worf as a problem. He can still be a Klingon adopted by humans.
  20. Paul755

    Paul755 Commander Red Shirt

    Jul 21, 2018
    I could see them leaning more into the “roguish” aspects of Riker. Almost Gary Mitchell like.

    I would expect the crew layout to be pretty much the same. Riker ends up being the helmsman and Troi goes to communications. Yar probably stays as security chief but works navigation instead of a dedicated tactical station.

    They just save Worf for DS9...where he always fit better to begin with.