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What If: Star Trek (TMP)

I think those are the sensor arrays. They glowed white because... surprise, the sensor arrays glowed white in TOS.

I am not certain that Matt Jefferies originally designed them as sensor radomes, although I am perfectly happy to assume he did as they are ideally located to cover both celestial hemispheres (except for the blind spots caused by the presence of the secondary hull and warp nacelles). That being said, the white glow was not really a good idea from a strictly scientific perspective, as you would want your electromagnetic sensor suites - particularly the infrared ones - kept as cold and dark as possible in order to minimize system noise and thus maximize sensitivity.

The spotlights happened to be in similar locations (this is how I understand it, though perhaps summoning The God Thing or Probert would be of benefit for clarification.

I honestly don't understand what CuttingEdge100 is complaining about, but then he/she/it has been starting these nonsensical TMP-trashing threads for years now.

TGT
 
The floodlights spoken about here may be very compact devices, really - after all, similar lighting was provided on the pennants at the aft ends of the nacelles, or on the sides of the secondary hull, without requiring massive boxes or anything.

The three boxes sprouting from the lower dome probably serve some other function besides acting as covers for the tiny floodlights. Perhaps just additional sensors? The Excelsior and Ambassador classes come with six rather than four such boxes. But the things could be auxiliary deflectors, too, or tractor beam emitters, or whatnot.

Timo Saloniemi
 
CuttingEdge seems to be laboring under the belief that the floodlights are some sort of lighting technology that we have today. It's just as likely that by the time we finally reach the year 2270, whether we have massive space-faring vessels at our disposal or not, both LED lighting and arc lamps will be consigned to a wing of some industrial museum.
 
Then again, an antique arc light may become a fixture of starships the same way a silly piece of cloth remains in anachronistic use for identifying seagoing ships today.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Oh, that thing. I propose it's an enclosure for the ventral sensor platform's computational/cooling/whatever support machinery. But it is worth noting that the original version of the NCC-1701 Refit didn't have that structure. It was only added after Douglas Trumbull - who was legendary for his pathological need to glue crap to miniatures as far back as 2001: A Space Odyssey to generate scale - took over ST:TMP's visual effects duties from Robert Abel & Associates.

TGT
 
Oh, that thing. I propose it's an enclosure for the ventral sensor platform's computational/cooling/whatever support machinery. But it is worth noting that the original version of the NCC-1701 Refit didn't have that structure. It was only added after Douglas Trumbull - who was legendary for his pathological need to glue crap to miniatures as far back as 2001: A Space Odyssey to generate scale - took over ST:TMP's visual effects duties from Robert Abel & Associates.

TGT

I always thought it would be a cool place for the saucer torpedo tubes on the refit... ;)


And if I ever work in the motion picture/tv industry, and get a job running a sci-fi production, I am so tracking you down as a consultant. :lol:
 
Oh, that thing. I propose it's an enclosure for the ventral sensor platform's computational/cooling/whatever support machinery. But it is worth noting that the original version of the NCC-1701 Refit didn't have that structure. It was only added after Douglas Trumbull - who was legendary for his pathological need to glue crap to miniatures as far back as 2001: A Space Odyssey to generate scale - took over ST:TMP's visual effects duties from Robert Abel & Associates.

TGT

I always thought it would be a cool place for the saucer torpedo tubes on the refit... ;)


And if I ever work in the motion picture/tv industry, and get a job running a sci-fi production, I am so tracking you down as a consultant. :lol:

Get in line.
 
Oh, that thing. I propose it's an enclosure for the ventral sensor platform's computational/cooling/whatever support machinery. But it is worth noting that the original version of the NCC-1701 Refit didn't have that structure. It was only added after Douglas Trumbull - who was legendary for his pathological need to glue crap to miniatures as far back as 2001: A Space Odyssey to generate scale - took over ST:TMP's visual effects duties from Robert Abel & Associates.

TGT

I always thought it would be a cool place for the saucer torpedo tubes on the refit... ;)


And if I ever work in the motion picture/tv industry, and get a job running a sci-fi production, I am so tracking you down as a consultant. :lol:

Get in line.

You're on the "adviser" list as well, trev.
 
Trevanian,
Wouldn't play to the specular qualities of the new paint job with LED type lighting. The 'splash' of light IS the look.

I don't know if I'd want to go with self illuminating skin... It would explain the lack of a self-illumination system in TOS, but I actually did like the basic self-illumination idea in TMP...


Hurt-imer Jittery,
I think those are the sensor arrays. They glowed white because... surprise, the sensor arrays glowed white in TOS. The spotlights happened to be in similar locations (this is how I understand it, though perhaps summoning The God Thing or Probert would be of benefit for clarification.

No, that's not what I'm talking about.

In TMP, before they arrived at the final NAV-Dome set-up, they did not have those spot-lights (the box-shaped structures, one which pointed forward, two sideways, and one aft), and did not have a white dome -- it was silver.

Just above the dome is a small rim. It also was silver. I was just thinking if you put light on the sides (not unlike the lights on the conning tower dome, same width and height roughly) aft and front and you'd achieve the same lighting effect on the underside of the saucer.

It would also look more high tech than the TMP enterprise, yet retain the self-lit look.


The God Thing,
I honestly don't understand what CuttingEdge100 is complaining about, but then he/she/it has been starting these nonsensical TMP-trashing threads for years now.

I actually have not been on this forum in years. Second of all, most of my critique was mostly towards TOS at the time.

Oh, that thing. I propose it's an enclosure for the ventral sensor platform's computational/cooling/whatever support machinery. But it is worth noting that the original version of the NCC-1701 Refit didn't have that structure. It was only added after Douglas Trumbull - who was legendary for his pathological need to glue crap to miniatures as far back as 2001: A Space Odyssey to generate scale - took over ST:TMP's visual effects duties from Robert Abel & Associates.

That's what I was talking about. It looked cleaner cut on the early refit design, there was a small area to fit the lights, and it actually looked more high tech than the final TMP design

While I admire Doug Trumbull's double-matte high-contrast passes for filming pearlescent miniatures, I think that gluing all sorts of crap to a scifi-model to produce the illusion of scale was not a particularly good idea.

One of the finer features of Star Trek designs is that they were clean-cut despite advanced looking -- this takes away somewhat from that look.


Timo,
The floodlights spoken about here may be very compact devices, really - after all, similar lighting was provided on the pennants at the aft ends of the nacelles, or on the sides of the secondary hull, without requiring massive boxes or anything.

Exactly, that's kind of what I'm talking about.


Data Holmes
I always thought it would be a cool place for the saucer torpedo tubes on the refit... ;)

Well, if a photon torpedo tube was mounted there, that wouldn't be all that bad an idea, especially if the torpedo could be loaded in just above the dome and spun around into any of the four torpedo tubes so it could be fired easily forward, and to either side, and even rearwards when the saucer is seperated (though the rear tube obviously couldn't be used while the saucer is attached for obvious reasons, blowing your own ship up is generally bad for business).

I could be wrong here, but you'd still need another self-illumination source (unless, maybe if you wrapped the light around the torpedo tube) as the photon-torpedo tubes in TMP didn't glow unless they were activated and ready to fire.

Technically though side torpedo-tube set-ups aren't really necessary, technically fore/aft isn't really necessary as the degree of sensor integration in star-trek (and probably even modern day radar-technology) could simply allow you to either program the torpedo to make a 180 degree turn after launch to go for a target behind them (or the sensors/radars could guide the torpedo into making such a turn for a target on it's side or behind them and such), though having an aft tube could really provide less reaction time for an enemy ship as the torpedo wouldn't have to go forward make a turn and come back, it would just go right at them.


CuttingEdge100
 
The "Spotlight boxes" you referred to are the possible "sensor arrays" I referred to, same structures. Just clarifying, since that seems to have been maybe a bit vague or unclear.
 
Hurt-imer Jitty

I think most likely those lighting boxes are more accurately an example of Douglas Trumbull's "pathological" need to glue all sorts of crap to models to produce the illusion of scale.


CuttingEdge
 
Hurt-imer Jitty
So? May as well justify their function instead of kvetching about them all day.

Well they could house sensors in them, but the lighting set-up looks obviously like a spot-light housing. Considering prior to Douglas Trumbull's arrival on the scene, those light-boxes were not present, it's logical to conclude that they were added to produce "complexity through extra surface detail" (not necessarily through function)


CuttingEdge
 
Hurt-imer Jitty
So? May as well justify their function instead of kvetching about them all day.
Well they could house sensors in them, but the lighting set-up looks obviously like a spot-light housing. Considering prior to Douglas Trumbull's arrival on the scene, those light-boxes were not present, it's logical to conclude that they were added to produce "complexity through extra surface detail" (not necessarily through function)
CuttingEdge

Yeah, if you go back to STARLOG 27, the Magicam guys sound kinda disappointed with all the surface detail added by Trumbull's people after the model left Magicam. Then again, I've always taken their comments with a grain of salt, since Trumbull founded Magicam years earlier, and since Magicam are the people who claimed Abel (in the form of Probert) was supplying ship drawings that were worthless to the modelbuilders.

For a union shop (a paramount subsidiary union shop), Magicam sounds like there might have been quality issues ... Probert saw they had the neck of the klingon ship on so that it wasn't straight, which sounds like an elementary thing that you fix before you show it, instead of doing what they did, which was claim there was no money to fix it.
 
Okay, I got a question for you guys (I did something sort of like this before, but not exactly). If you were the Executive Producer / Director, how would you have made Star Trek TMP?
I would have cut out the entire wormhole-Captain-Kirk-Doesn't-Know-Squat crap. Kirk never would have done something so stupid as to get the ship into a wormhole and I have to believe he'd certainly have made himself more knowledgeable about the Enterprise refit (ie. photon torpedoes vs. phasers) than was portrayed in the movie.

I would also have done a little more with his reunion with Spock and Bones McCoy. The three men are a triumvirate, they're three parts of an individual. Their reunions were lukewarm at best and even after having been to Gol, Spock would have shown more loyalty and even a hint of the closeness and loyalty he felt toward Kirk in the series. Bones stepping out of the transporter looking like he did was just ... ridiculous.

I would also have done a *little* less as far as boring scenery with the whole driving-over-to-Enterprise-with-Scotty scene. Seeing the Enterprise's majesty could have been done far better, I think. Reminded me too much of 2001:A Space Odyssey.
 
trevanian,
Yeah, if you go back to STARLOG 27, the Magicam guys sound kinda disappointed with all the surface detail added by Trumbull's people after the model left Magicam.

What surface detail did they originally want to put on the model?


CuttingEdge100
 
trevanian,
Yeah, if you go back to STARLOG 27, the Magicam guys sound kinda disappointed with all the surface detail added by Trumbull's people after the model left Magicam.
What surface detail did they originally want to put on the model?


CuttingEdge100

Magicam finished the model as instructed, very smooth, pretty much NO detail, very few panel lines (which made it difficult to hide the access ports.)

Pretty sure the klingon was the same way, the pic of a painted ktinga in the magicam shop looks almost as undetailed as the TOS version. Dykstra's shop added zillions of details and lights to the klingon ship.
 
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