What If Moore Replaced Braga?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Farscape One, Feb 12, 2021.

  1. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was doing a thought experiment on another thread asking what if when TNG ended Brannon Braga went to DS9 and Rene Echevarria and Ronald D. Moore went to VOYAGER. Someone mentioned that this would actually would snowball into ENTERPRISE. And they are right.

    Braga ended up climbing the ranks to Executive Producer, and started in the same position on the next series. Would that mean Moore, instead of Braga, be co-creator?

    Or another scenario, DS9 ends and Braga does what Moore tried, which was move over to VOYAGER. Only in this case he stayed, and he, Moore, and Berman create ENTERPRISE.

    For both or either scenario, my question to you all is: what does this show look like? How different would it be? Better? Worse? They set the same course as was already played out? And do we get Manny Coto later, as well?
     
  2. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Possibly a question best left to scholars and philosophers......
     
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  3. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Captain Captain

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    Probably a more interesting S1 & S2, which probably means the Xindi arc from S3 doesn’t happen to try and increase viewership. What replaces that arc is anybody’s guess.

    ENT probably makes it to S5 under Moore. Whether or not it makes it to S6 & S7 would depend on if it is picked up by CW during the merger between WB & UPN.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
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  4. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Let me ask a question back: if Moore had been able to moderate the atmosphere of the writers' room on Voyager AND the exodus of writers did not happen, would Enterprise have maintained more continuity with the other Berman era series in tone and quality?
     
  5. Go-Captain

    Go-Captain Captain Captain

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    If Voyager has a decent writing room and Moore has the DS9 freedom they finagled, but for VOY, then VOY wouldn’t have had premise abandonment. They would have actually played out the Starfleet-maquis crew integration plot line properly. They wouldn’t be able to do persistent hull damage but they could have done interior and unseen system degradation over time, like Equinox. That plays directly into ENT where they finally did persistent damage.

    The difference is the ENT persistent damage from the second season didn’t result in story effects except for the episode “Dead Stop.” It wasn’t until season 3 that it really started to matter.

    What we could expect is, as with Voyager, lack of premise abandonment. Except it’s a question of whether the dictates to use TNG conceits in ENT were Berman’s doing, or a studio/network executive decision. My guess is it was Berman because he thought he had the Trek formula nailed down and was loath to change any trappings, despite it being the whole point of ENT.

    On TNG Moore was the TOS guy and I believe that was the case on DS9, where in both he wrote the episodes most directly related to TOS. That makes him uniquely qualified for ENT.

    Best case, Moore guides the show to be more like a season 4 straight off the start. He makes the goal to end with the founding of the federation post Earth-Romulan War. No replicators, transporters, phasers, or torpedoes. Maybe more focus on why the Prime Directive exists and how it’s interpretation changed over time.

    I don’t know if Coto would still be on the show because hiring at that level depends on much on personal connections and happenstance. If Coto is there he might have more of an influence straight off the start. It would be really interesting to see a first season arc, or even the attempts at multiple two-parters per season. I love that format.

    Most importantly, once the series is finally cancelled in season 4 it won’t end with “These are the Voyages.”
     
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  6. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Except Moore was still on DS9 until VOY's sixth season, and Voyager had already abandoned much of the original premise back in the first few episodes. ;)
     
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  7. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thst's a very good point about Moore being a big TOS fan. Manny Coto was, too, and it showed when he took over the writers room.

    Moore definitely had that as a great qualification for ENTERPRISE when it was getting created.

    I'm not sure having the mass exodus of writers from VOYAGER was a bad thing in theory. Fresh blood was needed. I think perhaps different choices in writers would have occured, if Moore had any say there. Which is a strong possibility. They might have brought in the Reeves-Stevens duo much earlier, and that definitely would have been a good thing.

    If I remember right, Braga invited Coto aboard after seeing his series ODYSSEY 5. (I have that box set. I liked the show, though short lived.) I don't know if that would have occured with Moore, though.

    But if Moore was there from the start, it may not have gotten to the point of desperation for the series when it did.
     
  8. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, too much fanwank and references in Season 4.

    Don't get me wrong, I love Season 4, but it was too much. Had it been spread out over multiple seasons that would have been better, but alas.
     
  9. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think that if Moore was on board, it would have been spread out a lot.
     
  10. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic hyperpolypyroferricist Moderator

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    That was probably the plan. Look at the storylines that clearly needed several seasons to play out, such as the Trip/T'Pol relationship, TCW, Romulan War if ENT could have done it rather than a movie. I wouldn't be surprised if grand plans were on the drawing board for the next 4 years, but then they got some sort of signal that Season 4 would be their last. So they crammed all the big-ticket storylines from their drawing-board Seasons 4-7 into Season 4. Look at the effect on the TCW. Or even worse, the Trip/T'Pol storyline - Koss derails it, then inexplicably and conveeeniently steps out, so the remaining, truncated scraps can be rushed through-- Angst! Separation! Bond! Baby! Reunion!-- only to be shitcanned by The Thing anyway, so what's the point? Yeesh. I think if the fan fave storylines were spread over 4 seasons, and years-long storylines explored over time, plus abandoned threads tied up, like North Star and the E2 crew, that would have been great. Thanks UPN. :mad:
     
  11. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree UPN was the show's biggest enemy. Though to be fair, viewership did drop a lot after the premiere. I do firmly believe that was because of all the things UPN was having them do/not do, so it was like a vicious cycle.

    Lack of interference by a network/studio executives was a big reason why DS9 was as good as it was, in my opinion.
     
  12. Go-Captain

    Go-Captain Captain Captain

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    Enterprise should have been syndicated like TNG and DS9, and with just that I think VOY and ENT could have been moderately better. One of the demands for Enterprise is remarkably bad, UPN wanted a popular band to show up on the ship. To Berman's credit he nixed the idea as unrealistic or unworkable. It's the same thinking which got The Rock on Voyager, but I honestly like that episode despite it being an obvious wrestling promotion.

    Unfortunately I heard either the studio or station executive who got the job in season 4 hated Star Trek, or just didn't care about it, and that is the real reason Enterprise didn't get a 5th season. I don't know if I buy that, every season of Enterprise did worse than the last, but I think season 4 was the first to mostly hold steady, and it was still a huge viewer draw even with "bad" ratings. Also, the crew were already brainstorming a 5th season give they have a list of episode concepts for that season.
     
  13. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, that executive didn't care for STAR TREK. I think it was Les Moonves.

    Even with lower ratings, ENTERPRISE was still basically the flagship show for UPN, because it was STAR TREK. I don't think it's a coincidence that UPN dissolved and merged with the WB to become The CW the very next year after ENTERPRISE was canceled.

    A comparison to show how fans can make or break things... SUPERNATURAL lasted longer than the UPN network itself did.

    Had ENTERPRISE gotten to a 7th season, UPN might actually exist today, though in a smaller format. Perhaps function like Pluto TV.
     
  14. Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If this had happened I imagine we would have seen a lot more Klingon episodes. I mean A LOT more :lol:

    I recently rewatched DS9, and whenever a Klingon episode was on, I guessed Ron Moore was the writer, and with one exception I was right, and one exception Ron Moore wrote a non-Klingon episode.

    Edit: Also, one of his sole Voyager credits was Barge of the Dead, which was, you guess it... A KLINGON EPISODE :eek:
     
  15. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ronald D. Moore wrote many episodes that didn't involve Klingons. He just became the 'Klingon Guy'. Examples from DS9...

    "THE SEARCH, PART I", teleplay
    "DEFIANT"
    "LIFE SUPPORT", teleplay
    "THE DIE IS CAST"
    "OUR MAN BASHIR", teleplay
    "FOR THE CAUSE", teleplay
    "TRIALS AND TRIBBLE-ATIONS"... co-teleplay
    "THE DARKNESS AND THE LIGHT", teleplay
    "DOCTOR BASHIR, I PRESUME", teleplay
    "IN THE CARDS", teleplay
    "ROCKS AND SHOALS"
    "WALTZ"
    "CHANGE OF HEART" (Though being a heavy Worf episode, this can he debated.)
    "VALIANT"
    "THE SOUND OF HER VOICE", teleplay
    "TAKE ME OUT TO THE HOLOSUITE"
    "IT'S ONLY A PAPER MOON", teleplay
    "INTER ARMA ENIM SILENT LEGES"
    "SURVIVAL INSTINCT" (His sole 'Written By' VOYAGER credit.)
     
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  16. somebuddyx

    somebuddyx Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If Ron had gone to Voyager he would have been cheesed off that his mates over on DS9 were beginning to tell the long form stories that he'd wanted to tell. So he would have tried to institute the same stuff on Voyager and got shot down and either towed the line, transferred to DS9 or quit. With Wolfe leaving at the end of Season 5 he might have had an in there or he could have done freelancing like how Wolfe ended up writing Field of Fire. I don't think he would have made it to the end of Voyager so I doubt he'd have been around for Enterprise. If Voyager had a whole bunch of different circumstances at the beginning that had allowed it more continuity and consequences then Ron would have been pretty attracted to that show. It wouldn't have been like BSG or Equinox every day of the week, he's not all doom and gloom, take how positive For All Mankind is compared to BSG. But you'd probably have seen more secondary characters and less wiping the slate clean at the end of the episode.
    I wonder how Brannon would have gone on DS9 in comparison. His high concept episodes might have been dulled or Ira could have tried to infuse them with more character focus. I think they both ended up on the shows they should have.
     
  17. StarMan

    StarMan Custom Title Pending Premium Member

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    I'd be intrigued to know what Braga might have done with a DS9 two-parter season 5 / 6.

    RDM over at Voyager never felt like a good fit.
     
  18. Caretaker

    Caretaker Commodore Premium Member

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    I don't think Moore would have made it to working on Enterprise (beyond providing input unofficially as the pilot was being written). UPN and Berman would have been too restrictive, not bringing the change that the franchise needed. I think Moore would have left by the end of the first season, if not during the development phase, stifled by the lack of creative freedom.

    The question is if at some point after Moore's departure in this alternate reality, would someone have realized the mistake in letting him go and brought him back in order to course-correct the franchise?
     
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  19. amp

    amp Commander Red Shirt

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    I have some vague memories that Moore was originally tapped to create the series that would become Enterprise but due to all the acrimony between him and Berman/Braga he quit the Star Trek universe instead. I tried to search for any kind of confirmation of that and found this 1999 report from aintitcoolnews. It seems like it's mostly unidentified sources from Usenet so take it as you will.
    http://legacy.aintitcool.com/node/3904
     
  20. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    Is it possible with UPN giving the showrunners their blessings on doing whatever they wanted to do the series could've still sucked? In this forum ENT was getting better with Cotto, but the reality was the 3rd season, the 4th season's episodes were a mixed bag and wasn't that decent as a whole, unless some here thinks the 4th season's "Affliction" and "Divergence" were outstanding masterpieces. Whoever sees it different I guess the blind cliché blame must go to the twirling, mustache executives behind the curtain who allegedly hated their most lucrative franchise.

    From what I'd read with Moore on VOY, he wanted to come there and do things the show just could never do which was to make sense of the premise. Since ENT is a sequel to "First Contact" which he co-wrote and a prequel to TOS it already started on the wrong foot because its foundation is from TNG movie. For it to work it has to follow what was established, I'm not sure Moore would want that even though it's the genesis of his work. I wouldn't doubt he would fight tooth and nail to make ENT more in line with TOS, something the showrunners were not interested in and would throw his hands up and put his tail between his legs and leave peacefully and then they would hire Brannon Braga*.

    *Braga's foot was half in when developing ENT, he was secretly in talks with another production to be a producer and writer for "24"; he got the train rolling for ENT and made a smooth transition out.
     
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