What if Micheal Pillar hadn't left DS9 in season 3?

[Jayson1]

How do you think the show would have evolved differently? Even with Pillar I think the Defiant was a lock. I think that was something that was proably forced on them by the studio. The Bajorian stuff is intresting because I think the studio also wanted fewer Bajorian stories but I also think Pillar was a fan of them so it would be intresting to have seen how those two conficting views would have been handled.

The Dominion stuff proably would still became a big factor on the show because they were being set up in season 2 but I'm not sure we would have gotten a war. I also think Worf would have been added because I also feel that was a decesion made by the studio. Not sure about the Klingons becoming bad guys again in season 4 but I do think they would have been some huge shift to the show's concept. the idea of a sort second pilot feel we got with "Way of the Warrior" would proably still have been done with whatever big change they wanted to make.

Jason

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Piller had stopped making creative input midway through season 2, and he was only acting editorially thereafter. In 50 Year Mission, his "last note" was to try to convince Behr and Moore not to kill of Bareil.

The Dominion and the Defiant were definitely decisions made by Behr, developed in collaboration with Wolfe. I don't know how much input Piller may have had in either. The idea of a big GQ threat that was philosophically different from the Federation came from Behr, but I believe that Wolfe filled in many of the key details. The Defiant was introduced because Behr did not want to be forced to scale down the Dominion to make them easy for the underpowered Runabouts to defeat. He want to scale up the danger, and it wanted it to seem plausible that DS9 crew could meet that threat. Yes, the studio wanted the station to go places (I think there were inquiries into whether it could warp away), but really the purpose of the Defiant did not necessarily correspond to the studios goals. ETA: Berman himself did not want the Defiant to look too much like the Enterprise, lest it compete with Voyager.

Dorn: studio decisions.
Collapse of the Klingon-Federation alliance: Behr decision, although he said it was explored more because of Dorn.

If Piller had stayed involved, I think that the show would have basically developed the same, albeit with rounder edges. Piller was impressed with how Behr worked with writers, and he explicitly offered the show to Behr before even the pilot was written (that Behr would become showrunner after several seasons).

There are perhaps two ways that Piller staying on may have made a difference. First, Plller had a better relationship with Behr than Berman did. The writers felt that Piller was awkward, and sometimes his MO infuriated them. Behr filtered him and helped to encourage the writers. Berman clearly infuriated them all, and in many cases, Behr and Berman were antagonistic toward one another. Perhaps if Piller had stayed, the war would have been toned down as he and Behr may have worked more closely on it.

Second, Behr may have left. He was the one who was there from the beginning to the end. That may not have been the case if he were not solely in charge.

 

[Trek Survivor]

I wish Piller had stayed on with a more active role - I'd hope he could have course corrected so we didn't get those last two lousy seasons.

 

[Garth Rockett]

If Piller had stayed involved, I think that the show would have basically developed the same, albeit with rounder edges.

I agree. One of the things Wolfe says in 50 Year Mission is that there wasn't a dramatic shift in the way the show operated when Piller left and Behr took over. As you mentioned, Piller had envisioned Behr taking over the show in season three from the outset, so the transition was a gradual one with Piller giving more and more of his responsibilities to Behr. That suggests to me they were very much of the same mind on what the series could be.

Had Piller stayed, I think certain storylines might have developed differently but the tone of the show would not have been much different than what we got. I suspect Piller might have pushed for Bajor to join the Federation at the end of the series, since that was the mission he gave Sisko to start the whole thing. But that's the most significant difference I think there might have bee.

 

[Sakonna]

Piller had stopped making creative input midway through season 2, and he was only acting editorially thereafter. In 50 Year Mission, his "last note" was to try to convince Behr and Moore not to kill of Bareil.

That's interesting, the Memory Alpha entry on "Improbable Cause" talks about how Piller's last decision, on his way out the door, was to turn that episode into a two-poarter:

The episode was originally a stand-alone episode, but the writers realized that the story's original ending was too weak, and decided to expand the plot to accommodate a second part. Initially, in Act 4 of the single episode script, Garak tells Bashir that if anything should happen to him, there is an isolinear rod behind a wall in his quarters which the doctor should give to Sisko. Then, at the end of the episode, with Garak and Odo trapped on the warbird, Garak tells Tain that if he doesn't let them go, the information on the rod will be revealed to Starfleet. As such, Tain releases them and the audience never find out what is on the rod. The writers hated this ending, as they felt it undermined an otherwise superb episode, but they were unable to come up with anything more satisfactory. As Ronald D. Moore points out, "Everything we tried was just a writer's device or a cliché or a convenience or a cheat." That was until Michael Piller, in his last decision as executive producer, suggested they turn the show into a two-parter. This necessitated a quick rewrite of the end of the episode so as to lead into part II. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)

But, roughly, the window in which Piller was phasing out coincided with the time DS9 was really coming into it's own. The last two seasons had their faults, but I wouldn't go back and swap it for the Piller version if I could.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

That's interesting, the Memory Alpha entry on "Improbable Cause" talks about how Piller's last decision, on his way out the door, was to turn that episode into a two-poarter:

I'm not sure that there is an inconsistency. "Decision" and "note" are two different things, that latter being more of a suggestion. Obviously, Behr and Moore ignored him.

 

[Sakonna]

I'm not sure that there is an inconsistency. "Decision" and "note" are two different things, that latter being more of a suggestion. Obviously, Behr and Moore ignored him.

Oh, I didn't mean it as an inconsistency, more that it was interesting how long the process of Piller stepping away from DS9 stretched out, if he has various "last" moments 8 episodes apart.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

it was interesting how long the process of Piller stepping away from DS9 stretched out, if he has various "last" moments 8 episodes apart.

True, I can see how that might be confusing. Episodes were filmed in more or less the order they were aired, but how they were written and scripted could be entirely jumbled. Deciding that there would be a second part to continue Improbable Cause probably meant the whole writing process had to be begun anew (and budgeted for special effects), and it became a bigger episode that would have to compete with Past Tense I and II and the finale. That decision may have pushed back Improbable Cause for several months. Conversely, Life Support was a bottle show that was a Frankenstein story that flowed rather easily, save for making the dying man someone we might care about. I could see that walking out the door, Piller said, "Make it a two-parter," but several months later, while working on Voyager or Legend, hearing that they wanted to kill of his beloved Bareil.

 

[Leviathan]

One thing is certain: the credits would have been different.

 

[Sakonna]

True, I can see how that might be confusing. Episodes were filmed in more or less the order they were aired, but how they were written and scripted could be entirely jumbled. Deciding that there would be a second part to continue Improbable Cause probably meant the whole writing process had to be begun anew (and budgeted for special effects), and it became a bigger episode that would have to compete with Past Tense I and II and the finale. That decision may have pushed back Improbable Cause for several months. Conversely, Life Support was a bottle show that was a Frankenstein story that flowed rather easily, save for making the dying man someone we might care about. I could see that walking out the door, Piller said, "Make it a two-parter," but several months later, while working on Voyager or Legend, hearing that they wanted to kill of his beloved Bareil.

Actually, the Memory Alpha entry talks about that too. The whole season was shot in the order it airs, except "Through The Looking Glass" was shot between "Improbable Cause" and "The Die Is Cast", because the decision to change "Improbable Cause" into a two-parter was made so late, they were already prepping "Looking Glass" as the next show.

In general, I'm amazed by how well DS9 holds together, given that they planned almost nothing in advance. It's such an interesting counterpoint to so much of today's overdetermined TV, where you have to present the whole 5 year series arc before you even make the pilot.

DS9, by contrast, put a lot of intriguing elements together, and then followed what interested them and mostly made it up as they went along.

Obviously there are pros and cons to both approaches, and DS9's worst missteps would probably have been avoided with greater forethought, but I also think some of their best inventions would similarly have been lost. "Improbable Cause"/"Die Is Cast" is a perfect example of that -- it holds together seamlessly, it's a key linchpin of the series, and they just pulled it together at the last minute. So many of the greatest strengths of this show are derived from the fact that it was (semi-)serialized but also allowed to grow organically.

 

[Farscape One]

I think very little would have changed. One of the strengths of Michael Piller was that he was a good mentor for a lot of writers, and knew when to step back and let them shine on their own. That is one thing that I have read about him over and over again through the years, and it does show.