What if Enterprise had taken place +/- 50 years prior to TOS

[STEPhon IT]

What if the hero ship, and hence the series, had a different name?

What if the NX class was the predecessor to the Constitution Class?

It seems to me that a whole slew of discontinuity issues would have been avoided if the show runners had taken this route.

Thoughts anyone?

The design of the NX 01 is counter productive from the inventive design from Matt Jefferies. Eaves designs are more in line to what he's done for TNG movies, harder edge, war-like, and looked more like a design appropriate for the Enterprise F than a ship to pioneer a prequel of Star Trek IMHO. I wish Berman hired Jim Martin to design Enterprise; his design for the U.S.S. Defiant was beautiful, and more in line with Star Trek than John Eaves very ugly style IMO.

 

[BillJ]

This is the design they should have went with:

 

[STEPhon IT]

The mid-section is too small; it should be longer. Like the Matt Jefferies's Enterprise.

 

[BillJ]

The mid-section is too small; it should be longer. Like the Matt Jefferies's Enterprise.

It isn't 1966 anymore.

 

[TheSubCommander]

Just because the leader of a quarter of the planet had a DY-100 with artificial gravity, doesn't mean NASA would 35 years later. Maybe the DY-100 was made in India and the US was playing catch up decades later.

Yeah I chalk the DY-100 up to genetically engineered engineers designing it.

 

[TheSubCommander]

And TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY establish that Humanity wasn't "held back" in any way and basically exploded out into the galaxy almost immediately after warp drive was discovered.

A warp ship launch soon after Cochrane's fight eventually reach the edge of the galaxy (TOS), a warp probe from the same time period reached the other side of the galaxy (VOY), and long before the time of Archer colonies were being created far away from Earth (TNG).

like someone else brought up... The Vulcan's didn't hold humanity back from Warp drive 1-5. It was more about the Vulcans not helping them design it. Humans had to do it on their own.

 

[Avro Arrow]

This is the design they should have went with:

I actually *really* like that design... but TBH it's so similar to the general layout of the TOS Enterprise that I'm glad they didn't go with it.

But in my mind, these are the warp 7 ships they're talking about at the end of TATV.

 

[STEPhon IT]

It isn't 1966 anymore.

And it's not 1996 either. Better to go with what is true, and not what's false. Even J.J. Abrams understood that, and his Enterprise is on par.

 

[Takeru]

This is the design they should have went with:

That looks like the TOS Enterprise and the Enterprise E had a baby, it's too modern looking for a ship that's supposed to predate TOS.

This design wouldn't have looked out of place circling the borg cube in First Contact, it's too streamlined, not a good look for something that's supposed to predate TOS.

I still think they made the right choice basically redoing the Akira class, we've seen countless ships sharimg the original Enterprise's saucer, engine hull and nacelle configuration, constitution, excelsior, ambassador, galaxy, the miranda and nebula classes also share their configurations so why can't the NX and Akira classes?

 

[TIN_MAN]

I don't think setting the show 50 years before or after its original time would make any difference. It would have been better to plan the show better from the start, probably with different producers at the helm to freshen things up a bit.

Well, they definitely needed to freshen things up a bit and different show runners would have certainly accomplished that, but that’s largely beside the point.
But that “It would have been better to plan the show better from the start” is really the point of the whole thread, since it’s been said that originally, the producers wanted to go much more “primitive” and show a much cruder attempt at early space flight, thus the time frame a century before TOS would have been period appropriate.
But what they ended up with (thanks to “the suits”) was just more of the same Star Trek as usual, so what they had planned from the start was compromised through no fault of their own -or so the story goes. Given this outcome, revising their time period and setting the series 50 years later (i.e. 50 years before TOS) would have made a difference I think, in that such a time frame would be much more in keeping with the higher level of technical sophistication evidenced in the final product.
As it is, most of the attempts to indicate a less advanced technology were reduced to just changing bits of terminology; phasers became “phase pistols”, photon torpedoes became “photonic torpedoes” and shields became “polarized hull platting” even though they nevertheless weakened incrementally -denoted by percentage points- with each new hit.
An added bonus of the later time period would have been deftly sidestepping many of the continuity errors that resulted, since we actually already knew quite a bit about the level of (relatively crude) spaceflight a century before TOS, but the time period 50 years later is largely a clean slate; so the writers, like their characters, would have been exploring uncharted territory.

 

[eyeresist]

As it is, most of the attempts to indicate a less advanced technology were reduced to just changing bits of terminology; phasers became “phase pistols”

An example of a missed opportunity that we actually saw on screen, in the first episode we actually see some fairly large, clunky looking phase pistols which I thought looked cool, but they were actually "phased out" in that very episode.

like someone else brought up... The Vulcan's didn't hold humanity back from Warp drive 1-5. It was more about the Vulcans not helping them design it. Humans had to do it on their own.

That ties into the weird interpretation of the Prime Directive, that somehow links warp capability with a society's moral development. "We can't talk to/help these people, because they haven't built the right kind of vehicle."

 

[TheSubCommander]

This is the design they should have went with:

I actually *really* like that design... but TBH it's so similar to the general layout of the TOS Enterprise that I'm glad they didn't go with it.

But in my mind, these are the warp 7 ships they're talking about at the end of TATV.

That looks like the TOS Enterprise and the Enterprise E had a baby, it's too modern looking for a ship that's supposed to predate TOS.

Yeah, I agree. I really do like that design as well. However, it does look too 24th century to have been used in place of the NX class. That design might have been an excellent choice for the Abrams Enterprise, the Enterprise E, or maybe even a cameo as the USS Titan ( I am not a fan of the fan-designed Titan).


That all said, I liked the NX-01 overall, and never really had a problem with it, or its internal sets. Until I saw the Drexler refit design, I saw no need to change it. The refit version looks even better, and in hindsight, is the overall design they should have went with (although the saucer deflector dish should have been removed).

 

[TheSubCommander]

That ties into the weird interpretation of the Prime Directive, that somehow links warp capability with a society's moral development. "We can't talk to/help these people, because they haven't built the right kind of vehicle."

That was exactly what I was getting at, and how I had always interpreted what was really meant by Vulcans "holding Earth back."

Vulcan never conquered or occupied Earth. In fact, the Vulcans helped Earth, and it always seemed a bit like the Earthlings were a bunch of ingrates in Enterprise, particularly Archer. And it didn't help that Enterprise was vague on exactly what it was that Earth was so pissed about or what specifically Vulcan "held back." So I just concluded that it must have been the fact that Vulcan didn't reveal additional warp (2-5) and other technology to Earth, and forced them to figure it out on their own. To be fair, really that was the best thing for Earth, when you think about it. Just because you attain Warp 1 doesn't necessarily mean you are ready for Warp 2, phasers, or transporters, and will use that tech responsibility. Really, it was just ONE MAN who figured out Warp 1, not all of Earth. Really, at the time of STFC, Earth was still war like and recovering from WW3.

Bottom Line: the Vulcans were not only justified in not sharing tech with Earth and making them mature on their own by discovering it on their own, but they were wise to do so, and probably did Earth a favor by doing it..

 

[eyeresist]

^ The problem with the "Vulcans held Earth back" idea is that they did have warp 2 ships out there, and therefore could have been meeting other species, plenty of whom would not have had scruples about sticking to a non-interference directive. If they had just put out the word that "Earth wants warp tech and is willing to pay", plenty of people would have shown up to do business. You could say Earth wanted to do it themselves, but then why the resentment of the Vulcans? I think Archer had a line about Vulcans refusing to share some sort of data with his father, but it was pretty vague.

 

[Nebusj]

You could say Earth wanted to do it themselves, but then why the resentment of the Vulcans? I think Archer had a line about Vulcans refusing to share some sort of data with his father, but it was pretty vague.

It read to me as an attempt to tell stories about Earth as a post-colonial world. As often happened with Enterprise that was an intriguing notion poorly developed. The politics of nations trying to build their own identity after generations of domination by an imperial power are complex and fascinating and not much explored in science fiction or in American pop culture. There's a lot of meaty potential there.

But then it fell apart in specifics. What was Vulcan overlordship of Earth like? More, what did Earth see it as being like? Was there a Vulcan Raj, or was it more economic or cultural control? What were folks on Earth upset about, and what were they happy about, and what were they begrudgingly tolerating? What did Earth want?

Without answers to these the political background has an unavoidable mushiness. It's rather like the Temporal Cold War in that way. Who's fighting? What is the fight over? Is there a morally superior side? Is there a way to know when you picked the wrong side? ... No, all down the line, and so all the Temporal Cold War episodes were indifferent shuffling of pieces around an unmarked board game without rules.

The Earth-Vulcan conflict had at least a little more substance to it --- Archer could complain the Vulcans wasted his dad's time by withholding needed data --- but that's still pretty weak gruel.

 

[Nyotarules]

It is a shame there was not a post First contact pov from the Vulcan side, unless one takes the statement from Soval - to paraphrase, Humans are as emotional as Andorians, violent as Klingons and still can be logical as Vulcans. Perhaps its this fear that humans would make an unstable quadrant even more unstable is the reason the Vulcans did not help advance Starfleet. Maybe someone will write a novel from the Vulcans pov. Solkar's report - Earth a planet of many resources, especially being 70% water, an ideal place for a Vulcan colony if only humans were not living there.

 

[eyeresist]

It is a shame there was not a post First contact pov from the Vulcan side, unless one takes the statement from Soval - to paraphrase, Humans are as emotional as Andorians, violent as Klingons and still can be logical as Vulcans. Perhaps its this fear that humans would make an unstable quadrant even more unstable is the reason the Vulcans did not help advance Starfleet. Maybe someone will write a novel from the Vulcans pov. Solkar's report - Earth a planet of many resources, especially being 70% water, an ideal place for a Vulcan colony if only humans were not living there.

That would be interesting. They could follow up on Carbon Creek, in which Vulcan Mestral decided to remain on Earth. Would he still be alive at the time of official first contact?

 

[Nyotarules]

That would be interesting. They could follow up on Carbon Creek, in which Vulcan Mestral decided to remain on Earth. Would he still be alive at the time of official first contact?

As long he dealt with his 7 year itches he could live to way past 200, depends on how old he was in the 1950's

 

[T'Arwen]

It read to me as an attempt to tell stories about Earth as a post-colonial world. As often happened with Enterprise that was an intriguing notion poorly developed. The politics of nations trying to build their own identity after generations of domination by an imperial power are complex and fascinating and not much explored in science fiction or in American pop culture. There's a lot of meaty potential there.

But then it fell apart in specifics. What was Vulcan overlordship of Earth like? More, what did Earth see it as being like? Was there a Vulcan Raj, or was it more economic or cultural control? What were folks on Earth upset about, and what were they happy about, and what were they begrudgingly tolerating? What did Earth want?

On Trek FM, Brannon Braga said that that ENT Vulcans were an extrapolation from TOS. It looks like he took the racism he saw and morphed it into a paternalistic attitude about humans and their ability to handle space exploration. To me, that was enough but I can understand why others would disagree. The only thing I would dispute is the comparison to the TCW. Since Vulcans and humans were supposed to be frenemies, it's not supposed to be cut and dry on who's the bad guy. That said, Archer could have handled himself better when arguing when them. Sometimes, he wanted it both ways.

Listen here: http://trek.fm/warp-five/2

When I see all those super clumsy people in infomercials, I always think early Vulcans watched those and think we're all like that. Must be why they think we can't flush toilets on our own as Archer put it.

 

[Nyotarules]

On Trek FM, Brannon Braga said that that ENT Vulcans were an extrapolation from TOS. It looks like he took the racism he saw and morphed it into a paternalistic attitude about humans and their ability to handle space exploration. To me, that was enough but I can understand why others would disagree. The only thing I would dispute is the comparison to the TCW. Since Vulcans and humans were supposed to be frenemies, it's not supposed to be cut and dry on who's the bad guy. That said, Archer could have handled himself better when arguing when them. Sometimes, he wanted it both ways.

When I see all those super clumsy people in infomercials, I always think early Vulcans watched those and think we're all like that. Must be why they think we can't flush toilets on our own as Archer put it.

The Vulcans were the Western European colonial/semi imperialistic versions of 'The Great White hope'. I can see their version of Rudyard Kipling re-writing the famous poem 'Take up the White man's burden' or in their case 'Take up the Vulcan burden' show those cold blooded savages how to be civilised.
I can see how that image would make some fans uncomfortable, too close to real life history.