How do you think the show would've been in Manny Coto had been in charge from the beginning? I'm of mixed opinions on the matter. As good as season 4 was, I'm not sure that having a show chock-full of continuity references from the start would've been a good idea. Even though the first two seasons weren't quite as good, I thought they had their own charm and am glad they weren't just TOS: the Prequel.
What if Coto had been in charge from the start?
- Thread starter TalkieToaster
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UPN was a bigger influance than many of us realized at the time, and many of those would've still found a way in Cotoprise. But I think he'd found slightly better ways of getting around those.
I think if they'd started the show with the tone and sense of direction they had in season three, it would have been more successful than if they started with indulgent fanwank episodes aimed at the hardcore Trekkies.
If you want a solid answer, listen to this interview of Larry Nemecek from the Warp Five Podcast, especiall 27:20-29:50 and 32:40-37:00. He explains a lot about the influence that the various showrunners had on the show, in particular:
- that Rick Berman was essentially a gatekeeper, a throwback to the period when Paramount was suspicious of fan influence. Indeed, he saw his job as maintaining the profitability of the franchise without letting the fans get a voice in the narrative.
- and that Manny Coto approached the last season as a Hail Mary and probably the last season of Star Trek of any kind. He felt that he needed to resolve critical issues and put Enterprise back onto the path of leading into TOS.
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It would have been a cotostrophy.
I actually think if Coto had been in charge from the start, we wouldn't have had ENT at all.
Good point. Whose idea was it for Series V to be a prequel? Berman's, or UPN's?
UPN.
Berman didn't even want another show so soon. He was pushed to do it.
Berman didn't even want another show so soon. He was pushed to do it.
Berman wanted to do a Right Stuff style show. UPN wanted a new Trek adventure series. Braga wanted to do a show about modern nations interfering with the past. The "triple helix" was Enterprise
So would the average punter's reasonable takeaway from the Trek cognoscenti be that, proportionately, the more consequential conceptual missteps of Enterprise (and perhaps Voyager too for that matter) can be laid at the feet of the UPN decisionmakers?
Were those specific folks pretty much anonymous or can specific names be attached? If the latter, have any of them been tagged with their own personal dart board over the years? Why should Berman and Braga have all of the fun?
Were those specific folks pretty much anonymous or can specific names be attached? If the latter, have any of them been tagged with their own personal dart board over the years? Why should Berman and Braga have all of the fun?
Possibly. I think maybe for keeping Berman on, rather than anything else.
The reason I say that is this: I was watching the Berman/Braga talk on the S1 Blu-ray of Enterprise. In this, they discuss falling ratings and discuss that they had been consistently falling since Deep Space Nine - a decade previous. Having seen some TNG and DS9, the only difference I can really see between them is setting and cast. They all seem to approach things in much the same way, all the jokes are always told the same way ("Ah, is that what you hu-mans call hu-mor?"), etc. To keep someone on, in charge of a show that has been consistently failing year-on-year for nearly a decade, and let them make it in exactly the same way???
It was bound to happen, the cancellation. TV had changed (it always does), and Enterprise needed to be more different than just the same thing "before kirk lol".
It did knock some shape into itself in S3, and to be fair, I enjoy it all, but I can see it has problems.
Yes, it was the powers that be wanted another Star Trek show to follow where Voyager had left off.
And no, the prequel direction was Berman's idea and was to have been "The Right Stuff" of Starfleet. This was supported by Braga. After 600 hours of 24th Century, it was the idea that creatively energised them. TPTB didn't like it and wanted more of the same old. The further adventures of Captain Harry Kim would probably have interested them. It doesn't really sound like executives really understood Star Trek, only that they had to keep milking the modern formula until it ran dry.
To try to satisfy what the Studio and Network wanted, Braga incorporated an idea he'd been keeping for a non-Star Trek show someday. He altered the time-travel aspect from being about Earth nation states conducting a cold war throughout history, to fractions from the 28th through 31st Centuries. Although that really comes off as more of a 'screw you', we'll do this TCW because it's futuristic and see if you get the 'leave us to write this' message approach. Maybe what TPTB had in mind was to simply keep an ongoing relationship going between the spin-offs. They wanted another setting where old successful characters could theoretically drop by on their vacations, to bolster the new ones from time to time. Think Barclay and Troi talking to Voyager. TNG's Klingon characters on DS9. Practically impossible a couple centuries before... although eventually a way was found for the actors to do that. Either as ancestors, new characters or by the finale (ironically not going down well at all) as they were.
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I wonder what would have happened if Berman and co. embraced UPN's direction and suggestions and ran with them, rather than the grudging inclusions we got? I think that would have made for a very different kind of Star Trek.
That's precisely the problem. What UPN and Paramount were asking for was no change. Cast Scott Bakula as the next one after Captain Janeway, as I'm pretty sure everyone involved agreed on that... which boils down to recognised name equals more mainstream interest. Then put him aboard a quantum slipstream starship or whatever impenetrable technobabble would pass for "Look! It really is more advanced than TNG."
Whatever the fifth series had been, it still would've ended with Rick Berman in the position of being the person who drove the franchise into the ground. Of not trying to change Star Trek enough. It still would've been cancelled before its time, whether they did a prequel or a sequel. If I were a betting man, I'd have gone for prequel too because it has more potential to be different. What they conceded to the TPTB pushed it too far along and by the middle of Season One, it really began to cripple Enterprise. Predictably made it Voyager redux with some naivety thrown in, because it's the 22nd Century.
Until Manny Coto came along to inject more prequel back into the concept, all they could do was pull ideas out of that Temporal Cold War that was only half-heartedly included in the first place. The Xindi was the most successful thing to come from that, but it's still heavily tainted in a way. Take away the manipulation from the future (to get back at humanity for creating a Federation who opposed the Sphere Builders) and Enterprise should be facing some homegrown threats like the Romulans or Klingons. Or perhaps, more ideally a pre-existing race established since TOS but never fully explored. The Andorians fitted that bill to a tee. Barring an attempt at Tellarites, much of that only began to filter through by Season 4.
While coming under a lot of criticism for being nothing like Spock or Tuvok, the Vulcans are probably Enterprise's biggest contribution. Showing them as complex and not all as enlightened as we'd imagined or would hope from our closest ally.
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^They would have made a Trek that look different than Enterprise, but more like the one that was starting to bore TV audiences. The Right Stuff concept had the potential for a fresh look and unique challenges. However, neither Berman nor Braga had the skills to pull it off. Moreover, the writing staff was much newer, and it would have been for any new series, regardless of the century it was set in.
I hope he would've treated the Vulcans right.
As a race, they never strike as being one that does things quickly (given the length of their civilisation and long life-spans), but within a century of the Syrenite "revolution" to the time of TOS then they all appear to embrace its teachings and previously taboo practices (mind melds) without batting an inner eyelid.
Its a shame, as they are one of my favourite species. I felt that ENT unjustly warped them.
As a race, they never strike as being one that does things quickly (given the length of their civilisation and long life-spans), but within a century of the Syrenite "revolution" to the time of TOS then they all appear to embrace its teachings and previously taboo practices (mind melds) without batting an inner eyelid.
Its a shame, as they are one of my favourite species. I felt that ENT unjustly warped them.
By Season 3 or 4, among the Blu ray documentaries, Brannon admits that even allowed everything they wanted - Paramount/UPN not dictating that it must be a spaceship exploration show from the second episode - they still could've screwed that up.
It's hard not to see them running out of steam towards the second half of that first season, as a direct result of being forced to fit into the expected Star Trek template too soon.
Churning out too many episodes a year is a big problem as well. The ratings halved and halved again, precisely because of those average and below instalments. Looking at it from beginning to end (forget the TNG coda) I always feel there's an experiment to be done with it. Cherry pick the best. Repeat a concise, story-arced, abbreviated run on a channel that would promote it to the hilt... 7/8 in the evening, about half as many shows a season - and for god's sake change the title music - Enterprise suddenly begins to fit in with today's TV landscape. Absolutely nobody would buy me calling it a masterpiece, but I do like this show at its heart. It did a lot that was right overall.
It's hard not to see them running out of steam towards the second half of that first season, as a direct result of being forced to fit into the expected Star Trek template too soon.
Churning out too many episodes a year is a big problem as well. The ratings halved and halved again, precisely because of those average and below instalments. Looking at it from beginning to end (forget the TNG coda) I always feel there's an experiment to be done with it. Cherry pick the best. Repeat a concise, story-arced, abbreviated run on a channel that would promote it to the hilt... 7/8 in the evening, about half as many shows a season - and for god's sake change the title music - Enterprise suddenly begins to fit in with today's TV landscape. Absolutely nobody would buy me calling it a masterpiece, but I do like this show at its heart. It did a lot that was right overall.
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I watched the 2006 Rick Berman interview on Youtube the other day. He had said that after Voyager he thought Star trek should take a break for a few years befor a new series but UPN wanted one right away. He also mentioned that after making 3 shows from the same era, 2 on starships and 1 on a starbase they were limited on which direction to go for the new series.
I am a fan of Enterprise and I liked the concept for the series, it's just a shame it got cancelled as it really took off in seasons 3 and 4. Same could be said for TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
I grew up watching Trek in the 80's and 90's and loved Roddenberry/Berman Trek, I've noticed he gets some flak for the demise of Star Trek which in my opinion is unfair. It's now nearly 10 years since Enterprise ended, hopefully a new series would be considered in the next few years.
I am a fan of Enterprise and I liked the concept for the series, it's just a shame it got cancelled as it really took off in seasons 3 and 4. Same could be said for TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
I grew up watching Trek in the 80's and 90's and loved Roddenberry/Berman Trek, I've noticed he gets some flak for the demise of Star Trek which in my opinion is unfair. It's now nearly 10 years since Enterprise ended, hopefully a new series would be considered in the next few years.
