It would be interesting to see a 23rd/24th Century Mercator-style map of United Earth. Would the political world map still show color-coded nation/states like today? Would San Francisco, NorthAm be United Earth/UFP headquarters?
What happens to other countries on Earth?
- Thread starter Gingerbread Demon
- Start date
I would love to see a map of Europe and the USA in Kirk's or even Picard's time. Just to see how it is all mapped out both for states and politically.
After a millenia or two of global government the differences between nations might be less distictive than they were at the start of the global government.
I disagree, the EU is made up of nation states with a common democratic set up in various forms but still retain their cultural and national differences. Okay its only been 60 years and seems to be falling apart in the last few years, but the French are still French and the English still English.
I think it's customary for a nation's institutions to drop their 'royal' prefixes once the monarchy of that nation has been deposed. I don't know, for example, whether there would still be any 'royal' institutions left in France, or any 'Königliche' or 'Kaiserliche' institutions in Germany. And I suppose that would even more so be the case for organisations very closely associated with a nation's power and (or power projection), such as the Navy.
It is pretty clear in 24th century Earth operates as one country. It's not clear whether power is centralized or whether local affairs are locally governed.
I like to imagine there is some equivalent of the 10th amendment only actually enforced.
I like to imagine there is some equivalent of the 10th amendment only actually enforced.
Earth has "countries" in the cultural sense. Many or most may have some political meaning still. The world united, then went on to form a Federation with many other planets. A "federation" is certainly not just an "alliance" like NATO. It's a state with a strong executive branch. The US started as a much looser association of 13 states, a "confederation", then that did not work, endless squabbling amongst states and power struggles...and the US was reorganized into a federation. States don't go whichever direction they feel like. The central, national government is ultimately in charge.
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The Federation president, voted for or against by the population of the Federation to lead the Federation, has ultimate authority. The DS9 ep's on Earth showed that.
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Of COURSE they still talk about Ohio and Indiana, etc, just as they still talk about London and Paris. The PLACES still exist. No one ever calls them "states". A non-canon novel throwing the US or the president of same in has taken a big liberty. Sure, maybe there's a PLACE called "the United States" but when the US is mentioned (Spectre of the Gun) it sounds awfully "historical". And what use is there for "the United States" when all those places are now united under Earth and Federation government? They go out of their way to avoid mentioning the US except historically, preferring "North America", I believe...
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What I was getting at was that independent, competing nation-states are over. In that sense there is no United States. That's the bit that many viewers would find problematic, maybe threatening or wrong, if attention were called to it. Many of us (USA) are especially determined to have no outside authority over us at all, for better or for worse. Just by having a union of planets, authority has passed out of Washington. Otherwise, the United Federation of Planets is neither united nor a federation.
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There was a Next Gen episode in which a very unusual thing happened... the Federation was considering admitting a new member which consisted of just part of a planet. There were still two nation states on the planet, with an actual border on the ground between them. We were told that unification was a standard rule every planet had to comply with, and that this planet was a very special exception, for some reason I've forgotten. A bad reason, since they showed later that they were definitely not ready.
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The Federation president, voted for or against by the population of the Federation to lead the Federation, has ultimate authority. The DS9 ep's on Earth showed that.
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Of COURSE they still talk about Ohio and Indiana, etc, just as they still talk about London and Paris. The PLACES still exist. No one ever calls them "states". A non-canon novel throwing the US or the president of same in has taken a big liberty. Sure, maybe there's a PLACE called "the United States" but when the US is mentioned (Spectre of the Gun) it sounds awfully "historical". And what use is there for "the United States" when all those places are now united under Earth and Federation government? They go out of their way to avoid mentioning the US except historically, preferring "North America", I believe...
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What I was getting at was that independent, competing nation-states are over. In that sense there is no United States. That's the bit that many viewers would find problematic, maybe threatening or wrong, if attention were called to it. Many of us (USA) are especially determined to have no outside authority over us at all, for better or for worse. Just by having a union of planets, authority has passed out of Washington. Otherwise, the United Federation of Planets is neither united nor a federation.
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There was a Next Gen episode in which a very unusual thing happened... the Federation was considering admitting a new member which consisted of just part of a planet. There were still two nation states on the planet, with an actual border on the ground between them. We were told that unification was a standard rule every planet had to comply with, and that this planet was a very special exception, for some reason I've forgotten. A bad reason, since they showed later that they were definitely not ready.
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I missed this little detail. When did any episode or movie identify the place of LaForge's birth?
As for sovereign nations on Earth, I don't think so. It's pretty clear to me that the intent is that no one can join the Federation without first having a united world government. Earth wouldn't be an exception to this. United Earth, as far as I read it, is equivalent to the United States, in that there are numerous smaller states all operating under a single federal authority in Washington DC. United Earth is the same only scaled up one step: numerous separate states operating under a single federal authority in (I guess) Paris, France. But France, here, is not a sovereign nation any more than Virginia or Maryland are today. It's still a region with a cultural significance, to be sure, but it can't just say, "Nope, we're doing our own thing because we don't agree with the rest of you guys." A sovereign nation would have authority to declare war on its neighbors and I strongly feel that this authority has been divested from all the states on Earth. United Earth has the authority to declare interstellar War on its neighbors, at least prior to the founding of the UFP, maybe or maybe not thereafter.
--Alex
No. The monarch is the Commander in Chief of all military. If there is no monarch then there is no 'Royal Navy' it becomes the British Navy just as the real life, present day army is the British Army (I have no idea why it is not called the Royal Army).
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The one with the hypothetical situation of Australia not joining the one world Earth government? I did not get the impression from that episode that Australia ceased to exist as a result. I think the writers of Star Trek keep the whole 'does USA still exist' vague cos present day real human audiences, who are mainly from the USA would find the concept uncomfortable. "You mean the good ole 'make USA great again' is gonna disappear in the future - hell no we won't go!"
Personally I prefer the idea that Earth's nations states remain and learn to work together in the future without taking the drastic step of 'ceasing to exist'. Shows human maturity IMO, a much better run version of the E.U.
Anyway its canon the Royal Navy and monarch still exist, so the UK or England was still a sovereign state when a United Earth was being formed in the 22nd century. So all other nations must be as well, including the USA.
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In the real world, yes, that's a problem. The USA is Americans, and we're still nationalistic, accepting the United Nations as a body of peace makers with no power; the "paper tiger".
In the world of Star Trek, humanity of the 23rd/24th centuries has evolved to be less "politically/militarily" nationalistic, more one world, with only a cultural heritage to feel proud.
Perhaps United Earth is mapped "politically" by the continental names for clarification of orientation.
^This.
We've still got a long way to go.
Yes, that's possible.
In the Star Trek world, 23rd/24th century humans would look back and say, "Well, united Earth would not have occurred if Americans had not finally subjugated their 'pride' for the promise of a peaceful world of one - humanity."
Again, evolved future human versus prejudicial, nationalistic human.
I guess humans were scared and excited enough to realise, once First Contact occurred that 1.They were not alone and 2.But for the grace of _____whatever Diety one believes in the Vulcans were not invaders. Such a concept would give even US Americans a wake up call, plus almost blasting oneself out of existence with a WWIII helps as well. My fanon is that war had billions killed not just 'mere' millions.
Sadly millions dead would not shake humanity, knowing billions died, almost wiping oneself out of existence would scare the shit out of humanity!
(What you mean there are only 800 million of us left, out of 8 billion??? Arrrgh!!!! )
In the ST universe the late 21st century human has a choice - carry on as before, like their crazy, ultra religious, nationalistic, dogma driven ancestors or try something extremely new. Swap the concept of nation states for regional alliances instead. For this to work the standard of living for everyone would have to rise and be more or less similar.
I wish there was a 'After First Contact' novel on how Earth changed to be united, would make a great read.
Those adults of 2063 are being born about now and the ST version of me will be a geriatric when Solkar shows up. Cochran is due to be born in 15 years time lol
Sadly millions dead would not shake humanity, knowing billions died, almost wiping oneself out of existence would scare the shit out of humanity!
(What you mean there are only 800 million of us left, out of 8 billion??? Arrrgh!!!! )
In the ST universe the late 21st century human has a choice - carry on as before, like their crazy, ultra religious, nationalistic, dogma driven ancestors or try something extremely new. Swap the concept of nation states for regional alliances instead. For this to work the standard of living for everyone would have to rise and be more or less similar.
I wish there was a 'After First Contact' novel on how Earth changed to be united, would make a great read.
Those adults of 2063 are being born about now and the ST version of me will be a geriatric when Solkar shows up. Cochran is due to be born in 15 years time lol
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Yes, two wake-up calls for humanity. Nuclear devastation, and the arrival of (fortunately) benevolent aliens after one human breaks the light-speed barrier getting their attention. Then these benevolent aliens begin to help humans "clean-up" their world.
Of course, it wouldn't happen overnight, but that "gene" of prejudice could finally be extinguished.
One world, one species, working in peace.
Of course, it wouldn't happen overnight, but that "gene" of prejudice could finally be extinguished.
One world, one species, working in peace.
Perhaps the nuclear radiation kills the prejudice gene in humans, or Solkar tells whoever is in charge.
"You can either change your barbaric ways or we can let the Andorians come get you. They will show you what real war is like. You have five Earth minutes to decide."
I think that in order for humanity to coexist the focus will have to be on localized levels of organization. We can see the conflict caused by putting people with differing ideals under the same jurisdiction. Either one subjugates the other, or neither is happy. Localized government will be the key, with each of these ethnic groups being grouped into larger political units and each of these larger political units having less specific more generic powers. So while there may still exist things called nations or states; they probably wont be similar to what we call nations and states.
Sounds good to me!
However global legislation to enforce human rights would have to exist. E.G Women and LGBT rights
France and Germany, the rest of us left
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