There was no live-pause back then.
Friends calling and nature calling were the worst.
Friends calling and nature calling were the worst.
What happened on Earth between 2063 and 2079, and after? How was United Earth founded?
- Thread starter Unimatrix Q
- Start date
Well, Roddenberry's earliest contribution to that was "Omega Glory" where the claim was made that Earth dodged the nuclear bullet. But that one only aired after "Bread and Circuses" where "Roddenberry Trek" established that the first three World Wars were just for starters... And the post-atomic horror came straight out of Roddenberry's own pen.
Both in-universe and backstage, we're hard pressed to find a period of time when Earth being nuked to bits by us stupid barbaric Earthlings would not have been a thing. Although TOS sort of pushed the idea that those barbarian genocidees were romantic figures and affable tyrants and whatnot, while only TNG made everybody from before 2161 a knuckle-dragging and drooling not-so-great ape.
In just a couple of years ITRW, anything below the ten million mark will count as downright rural. Will Trek pseudodemographics be any different?
Timo Saloniemi
Something i wrote on reddit as a response to a post in a thread about this that i created there:
"Maybe the rise of totalitarism and these tribunals were a global phenomenon and a direct response to the arrival of the Vulcans, because some parts of the population couldn't handle the fact of them being on Earth and their intervention.
Sometimes people actually bite the hand that feeds them... "
"Maybe the rise of totalitarism and these tribunals were a global phenomenon and a direct response to the arrival of the Vulcans, because some parts of the population couldn't handle the fact of them being on Earth and their intervention.
Sometimes people actually bite the hand that feeds them... "
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Did Riker say that there were no governments in 2063?
For the immediate Vulcan "mission" on Earth, it was about making sure that Zephram didn't murder millions accidentally by refining antimatter wrong or launching a ship into orbit poorly, or attracting the attention of the Romulans or Klingons too early.
The Vulcans need to minimize casualties while respecting human Agency.
Similar to playing warmer/colder with a kid who can't find their shoes.
Telling all without saying anything.
The governments didn't matter until they became governments and Zephram decided which government he was going to tether himself to. Sure you'd think he'd have a preference to take America to space, but... Maybe it would be wiser to pick the government that had it's shit most together, like how Xavier tapped the WWII era Nazi's to hand over Galactica technology to, in Galactica 1980, when he was trying to figure out who is best to lead Humanity against the Cylons.
It's a bit of a Glitch in Xavier's logic to pick the perpetrators of a genocide to save his people, when his people are the victims of a genocide. Is it possible that he missed/skimmed over that bit in the history books?
For the immediate Vulcan "mission" on Earth, it was about making sure that Zephram didn't murder millions accidentally by refining antimatter wrong or launching a ship into orbit poorly, or attracting the attention of the Romulans or Klingons too early.
The Vulcans need to minimize casualties while respecting human Agency.
Similar to playing warmer/colder with a kid who can't find their shoes.
Telling all without saying anything.
The governments didn't matter until they became governments and Zephram decided which government he was going to tether himself to. Sure you'd think he'd have a preference to take America to space, but... Maybe it would be wiser to pick the government that had it's shit most together, like how Xavier tapped the WWII era Nazi's to hand over Galactica technology to, in Galactica 1980, when he was trying to figure out who is best to lead Humanity against the Cylons.
It's a bit of a Glitch in Xavier's logic to pick the perpetrators of a genocide to save his people, when his people are the victims of a genocide. Is it possible that he missed/skimmed over that bit in the history books?
Why would he find anything wrong in fighting fire with fire? It would be the right side genociding the wrong side, nothing more complicated than that.
Whether those other Nazi benefactors from ENT had similar ideas is unknown. Perhaps they wanted their champions to win, for future designs. Perhaps they just wanted to even out the fight so that the Nazi underdogs could create more havoc before going down and Earth would thus be better destroyed for posterity.
Vulcans probably would not care much either way. But they believed strongly in spheres of influence in ENT, and the influenced trying to blow their own bubbles would have deformed those spheres...
Timo Saloniemi
Whether those other Nazi benefactors from ENT had similar ideas is unknown. Perhaps they wanted their champions to win, for future designs. Perhaps they just wanted to even out the fight so that the Nazi underdogs could create more havoc before going down and Earth would thus be better destroyed for posterity.
Vulcans probably would not care much either way. But they believed strongly in spheres of influence in ENT, and the influenced trying to blow their own bubbles would have deformed those spheres...
Timo Saloniemi
Are Vulcans alcoholics?
Zeph is really good at getting people drunk.
Maybe they liked it?
Trillions of gallons of wine and spirits would have been trapped in bombed out cities across planet Earth, that wouldn't be too hard for a ship with a transporter to skim up, a few thousand liters at a time.
See!
Humanity had value.
Zeph is really good at getting people drunk.
Maybe they liked it?
Trillions of gallons of wine and spirits would have been trapped in bombed out cities across planet Earth, that wouldn't be too hard for a ship with a transporter to skim up, a few thousand liters at a time.
See!
Humanity had value.
There was a lot of distrust between humans and vulcans at the time of Enterprise. Maybe they actually military intervented and brought down at least some of the warlords and regimes at some point, when the political climate on Earth became too hostile for them.
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And being logical, not to mention prescient, they knew that missing out on the benefits of alcohol would get them conquered. So they dove straight in. Only Sarek's species of half-Vulcan, half-Xenonymphoid mongrels skipped this and paid the price.
Timo Saloniemi
Antimatter is free clean power.
Light and heat.
No fighting necessary.
Why fight to take what is already being given freely?
Light and heat.
No fighting necessary.
Why fight to take what is already being given freely?
Humans at that time weren't the enlightened species from later Trek and i guess at this time there were still a lot of racists and assholes roaming around. Not to speak of warlords and dictators who didn't want to lose their power and had their own interests.
He said there were "very few" governments left. He didn't say there were none left.
The USA was one those that survived the war. We know this because the war took place in 2053, yet in a TNG ep there is a US flag with 52 stars on it, and somebody says this places the flag as coming from anywhere between 2033 and 2079.
Thank you.
Somewhere in the middle of between 2033 and 2079, the US had zero states, so they got knocked down, but they get up again, you are never gonna keep them down.
I'd believe for a time, that there were 15 or more side show outposts inside what used to be "America" who believed that they were the new capitol and the true inheritors of the constitution, becuase there was no mass communication in place to tell them otherwise. Jericho, Z Nation, the Postman and Revolution.
It's more likely that it was the smallest countries, who were never bombed, that ignored the Apocalypse.
He's paying thugs to be civilized.
Although Voyager Friendship One, was all about how some dill holes ran amok with Antimatter. Antimatter bombs striking an antimatter power grid. I don't think that "modern" worlds like to use Antimatter on a planet?
Somewhere in the middle of between 2033 and 2079, the US had zero states, so they got knocked down, but they get up again, you are never gonna keep them down.
I'd believe for a time, that there were 15 or more side show outposts inside what used to be "America" who believed that they were the new capitol and the true inheritors of the constitution, becuase there was no mass communication in place to tell them otherwise. Jericho, Z Nation, the Postman and Revolution.
It's more likely that it was the smallest countries, who were never bombed, that ignored the Apocalypse.
What enlightenment?
He's paying thugs to be civilized.
Although Voyager Friendship One, was all about how some dill holes ran amok with Antimatter. Antimatter bombs striking an antimatter power grid. I don't think that "modern" worlds like to use Antimatter on a planet?
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Except you said this:
Can you provide a screencap or tell me a timestamp in the episode where this scene happens? Because I can’t find one.
Its a 15 year old memory.
I believe it happened.
If you don't believe me, it's your job to spend months reviewing footage on videotape, until you have confirmed that it didn't happen.
I believe it happened.
If you don't believe me, it's your job to spend months reviewing footage on videotape, until you have confirmed that it didn't happen.
Dodged the biological bullet.
At that point, Spock was still speculating on nukes, too... But in any case, dodging a superpower conflict was something Trek gave up soon thereafter (or, as it turned out, therebefore).
This need not mean there would be a valid US government as of 2063, though. Many a conquered nation lacked those in the 1940s, yet it would make little sense to say that their flags ceased to exist during that interregnum. They just ceased to stand for a factually sovereign state. Did the US hit a rut like that or not? No good evidence either way - the factor of anarchy is not brought up after the attention focuses on Montana.
Timo Saloniemi
This need not mean there would be a valid US government as of 2063, though. Many a conquered nation lacked those in the 1940s, yet it would make little sense to say that their flags ceased to exist during that interregnum. They just ceased to stand for a factually sovereign state. Did the US hit a rut like that or not? No good evidence either way - the factor of anarchy is not brought up after the attention focuses on Montana.
Timo Saloniemi
So in other words, you just made it up. Thanks for clarifying.
And, btw, it's your job to provide proof of what you say, not mine.
Most of the major cities have been destroyed.
There are few governments left.
Six hundred million dead.
Maybe that's just among the warring factions, and not the Earth in general.
Or then a few governments triumphed and took over maintaining good global order, but WWIV will soon reverse the situation and Earth will once again be shattered into multiple nations, before the final big crunch of 2150.
Basically, it still amounts to the humans at least crediting themselves with sorting out their own problems, regardless of what really happened; and, perhaps paradoxically, to WWIII not leaving any truly lasting marks, physical or political, even on the world of 2063.
Timo Saloniemi
Basically, it still amounts to the humans at least crediting themselves with sorting out their own problems, regardless of what really happened; and, perhaps paradoxically, to WWIII not leaving any truly lasting marks, physical or political, even on the world of 2063.
Timo Saloniemi
I did not make anything up.
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