What happened on Earth between 2063 and 2079, and after? How was United Earth founded?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Santa Borg, Oct 16, 2019.

  1. Santa Borg

    Santa Borg Captain Captain

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    From "Encounter at Farpoint" it seems like the tribunals, like the one showed during the TNG pilot, were a global issue and still happening in 2079 around 16 years after the Vulcan's arrival. So what happened in these years, what were the setbacks and how were they overcome.

    As Q actually made these things a reason for judging humanity, it seems things first got worse before they got better.

    And how did the Vulcans got a foot in the door that allowed them to control what was happening on Earth and the advance of technology?
     
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  2. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Global or not? Q's take could be assumed to be biased, although in which direction, it's not easy to tell in case of this joker...

    Supposedly Colonel Green was a big name there, culling the unfit in order to improve the breed. Where did he do his great work? In the same pseudo-British context as Q's court? Among the putative losers of the war, or the winners?

    The Vulcans getting a foot on is just a matter of wearing big enough a boot. Supposedly Vulcan spacemanship had been at the ENT level for centuries if not millennia, rather than evolving rapidly; Earth would have had nothing to challenge that with. So if Vulcan could absolutely control something, it would be Earth's access to space.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  3. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I've always assumed that the Vulcans helped in the cleanup and rebuilding of Earth society after the war.

    They'd pretty much have to, really. No freaking WAY does Earth recover from a global thermonuclear war in only a hundred years without help.
     
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  4. 1.21 Gigawatts

    1.21 Gigawatts Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Time for a pre-pre-prequel! :)
     
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  5. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Remarkably, we know there was a nuclear winter, yet we know it was already over ten years after the war. This before the Vulcans came!

    The war might not have been that big a deal after all. We learn the big cities were hit and went down hard, but smaller ones such as London or Los Angeles seem to have survived without a scratch. Colonel Green hunted down "mutants", but this doesn't mean the streets were filled with three-eyed zombies; it just means Colonel Green hunted down "mutants", possibly doing the " " sign with his fingers, too, whenever compelled to explain his killing spree. And only 600,000,000 people died - this is sixty big cities down if we speak of the immediate death rather than blaming X later deaths on the secondary effects of the war. Perhaps only China ever got nuked? (This explaining why China disappears from the face of Earth in every practical sense by the time of Star Trek...)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  6. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Vulcan ambassador in ENT seemed surprised that Earth was able to recovered as fast as it did, that doesn't make it sound like Vulcan had a lot to do with the actual recovery.

    And just because it was a world war, doesn't mean it was global. The first world war was mainly in north-eastern France and south-western Russia.
     
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  7. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Honestly, the more I think about the "added details" that TNG provided about Earth's 21st Century, the more I just want to scream.

    I'm not a "Rodenberry's VISION" guy by any stretch, but I have always believed that Star Trek's most precious message is that we survived into the future without dropping nukes on each other and by our own efforts and gradual growth.

    Instead, we've got a legacy of thermonuclear war, the "post atomic horror" and the fact that we couldn't get our shit together without aliens helping us.

    I don't know....it always bothered me. It kind of takes the magic away from what Star Trek was originally trying to say I guess.
     
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  8. Santa Quark

    Santa Quark Admiral Admiral

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    Can we chalk this up to writers who hadn’t figured out the timeline yet?

    It’s possible that as Earth was unifying, a few regions of Earth pushed back by moving in the other direction.
     
  9. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's pretty much a given that a nuclear war would, in fact, be global.

    Eventually.

    And besides, the Vulcans helping in the cleanup and rebuilding would explain why they held back Earth's technology for so long. They would expect compensation for services rendered.
     
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  10. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It would depend on who's fighting, and who on the sidelines.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, Green was detached to the point of being a NAZI, probably drank himself to death, but he wasn't digging mass graves over make believe superiority like skin colour or religion. From that speech in Enterprise season 4, he was taking the genetically fuked, the poor buggers insane with super cancer, and putting them out of their misery before they interbreed with the clean people, who would make children that looked clean but would pass on super cancer and tentacles to all their descendants.

    Of course...

    Romulans escaped a radioactive wasteland and Vulcans did not.

    Vulcan super cancer worked out as telepathy, super strength and triple the life span.

    Were the Supermen immune to radiation, how much more so than regular humans?

    Its possible that most of the clean humans left over after the war were only super men and their litany.
     
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  12. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The impression I got from ENT was that the Vulcans held back technology not because they were expecting compensation, but because they were worried that humans would advance too quickly and become a threat to both themselves and the outside.
     
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  13. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I always figured that immediately after first contact, the Vulcans took a very hands-off approach to Humans. Sure, Humans just developed warp drive, but they had also just irradiated their own planet years earlier. I think the Vulcans knew Humans had the potential to pull themselves out of their own mess and watched from afar to see if they would succeed or fail. Once the Post-atomic Horror was over (2080 onward) and Humans began to quickly rebuild, that was when Vulcans took on more of a protective role and held back certain technologies, IMO.

    As far as the United Earth, I kind of believed that took place decades later--somewhere between 2110 and 2130--after most of the postwar reconstruction was done. The resentment that some Humans may have felt towards Vulcans may have been due to a belief that the recovery could have been done much sooner had Vulcans been more helpful. To the Vulcans, though, Earth's recovery had actually been very quick and Humans were moving too fast towards the stars as it was...
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Johnathan Archer was raised by a mentally ill man. A child listening to their father rant with excessive volume incoherently about green blooded bastards is going to be troubled, and never should have been given a star ship. Unless he was given the ship becuase he was the only human on the planet who could open fire on an alien vessel murdering hundreds of alien soldiers, and still sleep at night, becuase he was a little xenophobic.

    It's possible that the Archer's were the only two men on the Planet with resentment against aliens until Florida was disintegrated.
     
  15. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commander Red Shirt

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    Small? LA? XD

    And that was one of the best scenes in the whole franchise. From a Vulcan perspective, Humans uniquely combine Andorian arrogance, Vulcan logic, Tellarite pride, and Klingon emotions. It took the Vulcans 1500 years to rebuild, Humans only 100. They were actually afraid of us because of what we might become another 100 years later.
     
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  16. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Funny, I don’t remember Henry Archer doing anything of the sort. Care to explain where you got that from?
     
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  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There was a flashback during the Eugenics stuff? Little Johnny is in a ball clutching his ears as Henry bellows manically something like "why are they keeping secrets from me?! Why won't they tell me how to do it?!"

    A nip here and there enutero, and Henry would have lived a full sane life, but that sort of thing is entirely illegal.
     
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  18. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just read Henry Archer’s Memory Alpha page. He only developed mental illness in the last two years of his life. So Jonathan Archer was not “raised by a mentally ill man.”
     
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  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Henry died in 2124.

    John was born in 2112.

    A 10 year old had to deal with that shit.

    Raised is an exaggeration, but the traumatic memories made during that period were going to stick.
     
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  20. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commander Red Shirt

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    Never saw that.