Not fond of the music either: it’s pretty much a medley of other Trek compositions (with even a few passages lifted from Star Wars -or, I guess, Holst, and even the Orville!)
What DON’T you like about the show?
- Thread starter Nenya
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I did an analysis last year when the title sequence popped up, trying to identify where each bit was taken…I could find very little that was NOT taken from somewhere else!It's a kind of pastiche of “heroic space opera music”, sure. But “lifted”? I don't see — or rather: hear — it.
Yeah, and in my opinion that's exactly the problem with this show and that's basically also why I didn't like it all to much. It's not meant to be taken seriously, BUT at the same it is an official ST show that is part of the canon. And that's what I don't like about it, because this means that what we see in this show does actually happen in this universe. And to me it's simply not imaginable that a Starfleet Ship can have such characters who are adults but talk and behave like children nearly all the time. This applies also to the Captain, Number One etc., it seems that nobody is taking anyone or anything seriously.
Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly fine with a comedy show that approaches ST in a funny way and I get why so many people are perfectly entertained by LD. But then, please don't make such a show canon. Because what we see here from a Starfleet ship and its crew contradicts basically anything we see in the other shows.
And? They likely had orders to observe and not engage, and the minute those orders were no longer applicable, their first priority was to retreat.
But even if we just take the scene as presented and not go into speculation and theorizing, there was no way they'd be able to survive a battle against what was it, ten(?) Borg cubes?
Really? Starfleet has had its share of problematic officer and personnel in all the other shows, be they people overwhelmed by the job like Barclay, general troublemakers like Edward Larkin, or the scores of renegade Captains and Admirals. Is it really so hard to believe in an organization that includes such people would also include people like the officers and crew of the Cerritos?
Besides, I know of similar antics that go on in the military today, and on civilian shipping services.
Canon doesn't mean strict literalism of what happens. Only that events and characters happen. Since LD is a comedic show then there is going to be exaggeration for the sake of the story. So, yeah, they are not going to take most things seriously. That's the framing device.
Being canon doesn't mean take things perfectly seriously.
as I wrote above, the problem is context, or lack thereof. You can justify it in many way, but the intention is to play cowardice for fun.
Strategic retreat or advancing to the rear.
Eh, not worth overthinking it.
Eh, not worth overthinking it.
I have no problem with such people included, as long as they are single characters like Barclay as you say. But as for LD, the whole Cerritos crew seems to be like that, or at least the main characters. Literally ALL of them, and that's the issue I personally have. And the worst thing is that this also applies to the leading officers.
And like I said, it's not this style of the show in itself I have a problem with (although it's not my cup of tea (earl grey hot
) regarding the humor). My problem is that it's a canon show, meaning that this events and characters presented in the show are "real" in the ST universe. And from that point of view, yes, to me it is hard to believe. But in the end, that's only my personal view. I see that lots of people, in particular those who are disappointed by DSC or PIC, have their fun with the show and that's a good thing nonetheless.Then I have or had another conception of being canon, I actually always thought that being canon means exactly what you point out it doesn't.
And that's completely fair. IDIC and all that. For me, there are always dramatic conceits to the fact that this is put on a screen, as a TV show. A big one would be in "The Menagerie" and Spock walks off frame with Pike in his hover chair and Kirk turns to see Pike reunited with Vina. There's barely a few seconds of time passed yet Spock got down to the transporter room, got Pike transported, he has his physical body back in the Talosian illusion and is with Vina.
Lower Decks is framed as a comedy. Which means that some things are going to happen differently than if framed as a drama. Taking Lower Decks seriously kind of misses the point. Treating it as canon just means it exists within the larger body of work and is official. Continuity is a whole other question.
I agree, I also viewed this sequence (and actually each other in the opening sequence) as an intended move to present the Cerritos as incompetent which is meant to be funny.
BUT I also have to say that for this purpose they shouldn't have chosen a space battle against the Borg. I mean, I got what they wanted to express, but fleeing from a Borg Cube is actually not cowardish or makes you look incompetent. The Borg are among the most dangerous beings (are they "beings"? Maybe an interesting question to be disussed elsewhere ^^) in the ST universe and I always viewed a Borg Cube as one of the most dangerous things you can come across in space, even with a fleet to back you up. And then, we see more than one Borg Cube in that sequence battling against not such a high number of federation/allied ships. To emphasize their point better, in my opinion they should have shown the Cerritos against one single, quite small and not dangerous looking space ship - one phaser beam from this ship and the Cerritos flees.
Still, I find this sequence quite impressive and well and beautifully made from a technical and artistical point of view. While I don't like the show itself that much, I actually really enjoyed the opening sequence and its music.
In a Federation with, at least, a trillion citizens, Starfleet likely has a membership in the hundreds of millions, if not billions. They should all act like carbon copies of each other to satisfy some fan need for conformity? From everything I've seen, Star Trek itself is against conformity. IDIC and all that...
So the Cerritos should have stayed and been destroyed like a good Starfleet ship, even when it is clearly outmatched?
That's a Starfleet officer's first duty, right? To die stupidly?
I agree completely. Would it have been a Pakled ship -as long as you recognized it as such- it could have been funnier, especially as the Pakled were later overturned as a worthy foe.
Same here.
Sorry but this is beyond the point. I just don’t find that showing the crew of the Cerritos as incompetent and coward is funny nor that it actually reflects what has been going on in the series.
Which means maybe it isn't a reflection of cowardice at all...
If it wasn't the point, why bring it up at all? Not all Starfleet officers nor ships are created equal. For every "best of the best of the best, sir!" There are likely twenty people serving that are like the crew of the Cerritos.
Some folks are CEO's and doctors, other folks are trash men and burger flippers, and there are a bunch of folks inbetween.
Sorry, I can't see this without thinking of Men in Black.
Sorry, I can't see this without thinking of Men in Black.
That was where I pulled it from.
And I still don't see how avoiding a fight with the Borg is "cowardice." Sounds more like common sense to me.
And? Not everyone in any given organization are going to be professionals and the very paragon of virtue and perfection. Starfleet has its bad apples, and it's not unheard of that a majority of them would end up on the same ship. If anything, it makes more sense that these type of officers would end up on one of the less prestigious ships than on one of the front line ships.
Then again, Starfleet did choose an officer who was waiting to have his spine installed on Tuesday as Captain of their flagship, so...
We should also keep in mind that LOWER DECKS happens a bit after the Dominion War, which killed a LOT of good officers. The need to recruit probably lowered the bar, for lack of a better term, in bringing potential new officers. That could explain the not so high level of Starfleet officer on the Cerritos.
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