I'm late to the discussion, so I'm starting at page 1 of the thread.
If Kirk and Spock were meant to be gay, we would know that.
How would we know that? Is there some physical trait we've all overlooked during the past almost-60 years?
You can't just look at someone and know if they're gay any more than you can just look at someone and tell if they're atheist. I realize that's not a precise analogy, but it fits the list of "things you can't tell just by looking at someone".
Keep in mind that in the 1960s, American TV not only didn't show gay couples, they didn't even show people in heterosexual marriages sharing the same bed! For the past 50-odd years I've been wondering just where Pebbles Flintstone was conceived, because Fred and Wilma slept in separate beds, and both of them were very narrow single beds.
Of all the things I care about the least in fiction it's vehicle design.
Character sex lives are a close second. People can think what they want. People have fantasized about Spock forever.
Spock Enslaved is rather notorious. It's notorious to the point where it's usually listed for some insane price on eBay and similar sites, to the tune of $250-$500 USD.
I own a copy, but I didn't pay anywhere near
that much. I think I got mine for under $25 CAD (this was at a time when the exchange rate was less horrendous for Canadians).
Idk, I think Kirk/Spock fic doesn't hurt anyone. I could easily write a fic in which they're just co-workers and I could easily write one in which they're lovers because their relationship can be interpreted in so many ways. They're one of those pairings where either way makes complete sense and you don't have to jump through a zillion hoops to achieve your writing aim.
In general I think shipping Kirk/Spock (or any other pairing) is fine unless it becomes rabid and/or people start to yell at each other about their headcanons - ship wars are among the most annoying things a fandom can produce.
Actually, there's something worse - when people start confusing the characters with the actors. That's why some actors are wary of fan events, and aren't too happy about fanfic. Colin Morgan, for instance, is very uncomfortable when fans talk about the various 'ships in BBC Merlin. The thing with that cast is that whether it's same-sex or heterosexual, there aren't many pairings among the characters that
wouldn't be believable (obviously the incestuous ones are off the table - no Gwen/Elyan, for instance, as they're siblings).
So on the one hand, some of the actors get uncomfortable at events when fans ramble on about the story ideas they have, completely oblivious that they're imagining characters played by real people in those situations. But on the other hand? It's fun. I'm writing Merlin fanfic, and yes, some of it dances around same-sex relationships. But in my case, even though I don't mind reading a well-written, non-explicit same-sex relationship story, that's not what I'm comfortable writing. It makes sense to mention it for the plot, but it's not ultimately where I'm going.
It's the same for any fandom, including TOS or any other variety of Trek. I would imagine some of them have been more than a little annoyed over the years when fans' fantasies have gotten a bit too public.
there's a bit of a look between Spock and Uhura during the musical bit of Charlie X. Oh there was absolutely something going on there.
My take on that is Uhura is flirting. Leonard Nimoy is trying very hard not to give in to a fit of laughter.
That's all it ever was between those two characters in TOS. Uhura flirted. Spock/Nimoy reacted either logically, or at least tried not to burst out laughing at the absurdity of that musical scene.
What the nuTrek people did was take a brief moment of friendly flirting in TOS and pervert it into something that shows nuUhura as someone so selfish and unprofessional that she would openly rant and whine about their "relationship" while on duty - even basically telling the Captain to shut up while she continued to carry on about it.
Yeah but then the same could be said about Kirk/Spock or other pairings. Whenever there are certain "looks" or special closeness between two characters, some people are going to interpret that as romantic or sexual tension, pretty much as what happens in real life when you see two persons who are "really, really close". In my opinion, the case for Spock/Uhura in TOS is very weak, but Uhura/Scotty in TFF is obvious. And yet others don't see it that way, and interpret the scene in TFF as just a case of two good friends who fell under the influence of Sybok (and thus had no real romantic relationship). So...
EDIT: Then the showrunners sometimes make the most contradictory decisions, like making Spock/Uhura a thing in the Kelvin films, based on the flimsy evidence of a single look. And on the other hand, making Sulu (who did in fact have a crush on Uhura in the series), suddenly gay. Despite George Takei himself saying that it went against the character's concept. That makes zero sense for me.
They really should have respected Takei's wishes in this. Who would know the character of Sulu better than the actor who played him for so many decades? And for Zoe Saldana to mouth off about it in an interview, stick her nose in the air, and say that Takei "needs to grow up"... good grief. You don't tell someone with his life experiences to "grow up." He had to grow up before he was even out of childhood (I don't remember hearing that Saldana was chucked into a concentration camp during her childhood just for having the wrong ancestors).
It's harmless fun for those into it, and I'd LOVE to see the Internet melt down if it ever became canon a la Garak/Bashir.
Garak/Bashir stories have been around for a loooong time. I have no definite opinion on this pairing; as long as the story is written well, I'd give it a chance.
At the end of "Mirror Mirror" Kirk was obviously going to make a pass at his subordinate Marlena.
Watch "Trials and Tribble-ations" and then come back to this point. That wasn't the original Tribbles episode Sisko was inserted into for his final 23rd century scene (where he couldn't resist the opportunity to meet Kirk). Sisko was superimposed into the exact place where Prime universe Marlena Moreau was.
When you consider the dialogue Kirk and Spock had about the "young lady" and Kirk saying that "she seemed like a nice, likeable girl" and remember Sisko in the space she occupied in "Mirror, Mirror"... I can't take that scene seriously in
either show.
Lower Decks, S5 E9. There's also the podcast done recently by Alexander Siddig and Andrew Robinson, but that's technically non canon.
I think that writers and speculators can ship who they want, within whatever rules are set by the site they're on. A good example would be "all relationships between consenting adult sentients are permissible".
As for Kirk/Spock, I see them the way I see Bashir/O'Brien, Data/Geordi, Harry/Tom, and Harry Potter/Ron Weasley. That is to say, an epic bromance that is perfect as it is, and doesn't need to be more.
When it comes to HP and the WolfStar fans vs. the fans who insist these characters are
not a couple, it doesn't matter to me. As long as the stories are well-written, I don't care if it's Sirius/Remus or one or both and a female partner. All I do know is that Remus/Tonks had zero chemistry. Their relationship is about as interesting as watching paint dry.
Same with Trek. A good story can make any pairing work. Even Chakotay/Seven.
