What do you think about people "Shipping" Kirk and Spock?

[AntonyF]

It's been around since the 60s... I don't think there's any debate to be had really. I think you're looking in some way to validate something that doesn't need validating.

It's already happened. For decades. ILoveVoyager, just like Jonah and the Whale, you're going in.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Never in the whole of TOS was stated that a Captain couldn't be involved with anyone in the crew. That's fanon, not canon. Robert April was married to his medical officer. And the character of Rand was designed to show sexual tension with the Captain. If Rand hadn't disappeared so early, be sure that we would have had romance between her and Kirk. In fact, the original script of "Shore Leave" showed precisely that; there was no Ruth and no Tonia Barrows.

From the Naked Time

KIRK: I have a beautiful yeoman. Have you noticed her, Mister Spock? You're allowed to notice her. The Captain's not permitted

Rand was never there for Kirk to romance. That wasn't her part. The attraction was something that couldn't be acted upon. Kirk always had to be free to romance the woman of the week.
Scripts get changed all the time when they don't meet the needs or the format of the show. Shore Leave was one that was being rewritten as it was filmed. Most were redone to various degrees. The most infamous example would be COTEOF with it's drug dealing crewman in an early draft.

 

[Airin]

From the Naked Time
KIRK: I have a beautiful yeoman. Have you noticed her, Mister Spock? You're allowed to notice her. The Captain's not permitted

I've never taken the line in "The Naked Time" to mean literally that a First Officer is permitted to have affairs with a yeoman, while a Captain can't. More like Kirk feels so pressured to be the perfect Captain at all times that he won't permit himself to show any weakness or indulge in distractions. As I said, it was no problem for Robert April to marry his CMO. And Kirk does in fact "notice" several subordinates. The scripts and outlines for "Mirror Mirror" show that his interest in Marlena wasn't strictly professional. Many of his ex-girlfriends are Starfleet personnel with lower ranks than him. And even if you're going to follow a hard rule that Captains aren't allowed to romance the crew, there are a million ways to circumvent this in fiction, from "an alien virus made them do it", to "they made a mistake and later regretted it". So you can still have the Captain-yeoman romance. Writers can break their own rules if it serves the plot, and TOS is hardly consistent with its own rules anyway (like the Prime Directive).

At the end of the day, I don't share the apparent optimism here that writing decisions are always governed by pure logic. That ALL couples that make sense get canonized, and only those. I think that moral bias has a great impact in those decisions, in the 60's and still today. And that what you see or don't see on screen isn't necessarily based on what makes the most sense, but on what disgusts or doesn't disgust the audience or the showrunners. And it's evident when people quickly justify totally random man/woman couples ("oh! it was always there! you just didn't notice it!"), but find infinite complaints when it's a man/man couple ("it contradicts the character! it ruins the show! it corrupts their beautiful friendship!").

 

[SurfingtheInterweb]

Absolutely. Kirk and Spock seem way too formal with each other, even a bit distant. Spock and Bones were an old married couple.

My feelings exactly. Theyre both too serious and low talking, and I see people then in turn for K/S to make Kirk more energetic, but he isn't. Bones is much needed contrast against Spock's pall

 

[somebuddyX]

I think it's fine in fanfiction, maybe even in alternate timelines. But I prefer strong friendships in Trek over romantic relationships any day of the week.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

It's harmless fun for those into it, and I'd LOVE to see the Internet melt down if it ever became canon a la Garak/Bashir.

A little remedial DS9, please. When did that become canon? I can't believe Bashir would be sexually attracted to a Kardashian.

 

[1001001]

A little remedial DS9, please. When did that become canon? I can't believe Bashir would be sexually attracted to a Kardashian.

Lower Decks

 

[Oddish]

A little remedial DS9, please. When did that become canon? I can't believe Bashir would be sexually attracted to a Kardashian.

Lower Decks, S5 E9. There's also the podcast done recently by Alexander Siddig and Andrew Robinson, but that's technically non canon.

I think that writers and speculators can ship who they want, within whatever rules are set by the site they're on. A good example would be "all relationships between consenting adult sentients are permissible".

As for Kirk/Spock, I see them the way I see Bashir/O'Brien, Data/Geordi, Harry/Tom, and Harry Potter/Ron Weasley. That is to say, an epic bromance that is perfect as it is, and doesn't need to be more.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

A little remedial DS9, please. When did that become canon? I can't believe Bashir would be sexually attracted to a Kardashian.

It's alternate universe EMH Bashir and alternate universe Starfleet Doctor Garak, but shippers seem happy enough with that!

 

[Airin]

My feelings exactly. Theyre both too serious and low talking, and I see people then in turn for K/S to make Kirk more energetic, but he isn't. Bones is much needed contrast against Spock's pall

Yeah, I think that they work well in a professional level. Kirk probably couldn't function so fine as a Captain without Spock's input. But on a personal level they're too similar and obsessed with efficiency. So I don't think they'd bring out precisely the best of each other as a couple. Also, people often say they're best friends or like brothers, but I'm not sure even that it's a good definition. Kirk seeks Spock for advice about the ship, but for personal matters? Not so much. Their relationship is hard to define. Roddenberry called it "t'hyla" in the TMP novel: friend, brother, lover. It's a bit of those three things, but actually none of them when taken separately (or not in the way humans would understand it).

Spock and McCoy, on the other hand, were designed as two halves of a whole, so they complement each other far better. Also sharing a katra must have created a deep bond between them.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Nah they're friends. Close friends, like brothers. But that's it. Other than the weird moment of Kirk going in for a hug in Star Trek V - for the sake of a joke - nothing was ever implied or played otherwise. Roddenberry addressed it in the TMP novelization - acknowledging the idea but having Kirk himself say "nah - we ain't that." Regardless, if nothing happened or was mentioned on screen, it didn't happen.

Kirk also doesn't diddle around with subordinates. Mirror Kirk does, but not Prime Kirk.

 

[Farscape One]

Kirk and Spock are just really close best friends... close enough to call each other 'brother'.

Nothing more.

 

[Weyoun 251]

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He thinks it's Spock massaging him, then is disappointed it's not, immediately tells her to stop, they look at each other, and as Spock turns away, he totally looks at his ass.

I think you look great Spock - as far as I'm concerned, that's Vulcan's ass

 

[TRON JA307020]

They're lovers, even Roddenberry made a reference to Spirk in the TMP novelization. And I see plenty of ways Shatner plays moments between himself and Nimoy in TOS and the films that hint at it, whether Shatner admits it or not.

Does that affect any of the stories or mark the end of the fictional world if any of that's true? Hardly.

No they aren't.

 

[Campe]

I personally think they’re just good friends.

But I have no issue at all if anyone sees it differently. It’s not up to me to decide what others think.

 

[Maurice]

Some context. Starfleet in TOS was a military organization (it's right there in the Star Trek Guide)…

Is the starship U.S.S. Enterprise a military vessel?
Yes, but only semi-military in practice -- omitting features
which are heavily authoritarian. For example, we are not
aware of "officers" and "enlisted men" categories. And we
avoid saluting and other annoying medieval leftovers. On
the other hand, we do keep a flavor of Naval usage and
terminology to help encourage believability and identifica-
tion by the audience. After all, our own Navy today still
retains remnants of tradition known to Nelson and Drake.

Roddenberry served in the U.S. Army Air Corps and that possibly shaped his thinking. In the Army during the 1960s personal relationships between officers within the same chain of command were discouraged and could be considered unprofessional conduct, especially if they affected discipline, morale, or command integrity. And officers being involved with enlisted types was an absolute no-no in the Army.

 

[Airin]

In the Army during the 1960s personal relationships between officers within the same chain of command were discouraged and could be considered unprofessional conduct, especially if they affected discipline, morale, or command integrity

Absolutely irrelevant, as seen in "Balance of Terror". That it was a military or semi-military organization doesn't mean that Roddenberry envisioned it as a carbon copy of the army he knew. I doubt there were female lieutenants in mini-skirts when he served either. Or black women giving orders to white men? Hard to imagine.

 

[fireproof78]

They're both officers.

The military language and demeanor would be clear to the audience of the day.

 

[Maurice]

Absolutely irrelevant, as seen in "Balance of Terror". That it was a military or semi-military organization doesn't mean that Roddenberry envisioned it as a carbon copy of the army he knew. I doubt there were female lieutenants in mini-skirts when he served either. Or black women giving orders to white men? Hard to imagine.

You repeatedly disregard the context of my posts (e.g. what might have informed Roddenberry's thinking, regardless of the execution) in favor of arguing over points I'm not making.

Outta.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Kirk and Spock are just really close best friends... close enough to call each other 'brother'.

Nothing more.

Prime universe yes and nothing in 60 years of Trek counters that...however with their being infinite universes (of which we have barely touched the surface on screen) there will inevitably be one where they are - and that's fine too.

All bases covered, doesn't contradict anything shown on screen, acknowledges that given the right circumstances in said parallel universe a friendship that close could morph into something else

Your honour - I rest my case

P.S only directing to your message as it was the first I read, not indicating any disagreement with you or calling you out so hope it doesn't come across that way