What do you guys actually like about discovery?

[Lord Garth]

Sorry I haven't been around. Not any one thing. It's been everything. Things have been extremely busy IRL and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Just popping in briefly.

My reality is Discovery generally rates in the 8 to 9 range but if it gets a 6 it earns it. One actor's performance isn't going to change it much.

Still re-watching and re-rating Season 4, but I'd probably give Discovery about an 8.5 as a whole, so that tracks with where I have it as well.

Discovery did disappoint me slightly by not sticking to its guns on that though. When Burnham became captain, the focus should have shifted to another character. *ahem, Saru.

Except they did stick to their guns. Right in the very first episode, Captain Georgiou talks about Burnham having her own command some day. Burnham was always going to eventually become a Captain in Discovery.

Burnham was also First Officer. That's not the same situation as Lower Decks where they were all Ensigns. You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Nyotarules]

This was one of my problems with the show from the get-go... the main character didn't screw anything up at all.

Burnham doesn't screw things up. Burnham is always right. Everything that Burnham did in the first episode, she was right... she didn't start any war. The Klingons were going to attack. She discovered the Klingons were going to attack.

The real lesson from the pilot of Discovery was "Always listen to Burnham, Burnham is always right."

I think the idea of focusing on a character who is not the captain is a good idea... but Discovery executes it poorly by still making Burnham the most important person in like, basically all of history.

Contrast that Lower Decks, similar situation... not focusing on the Captain... and ALSO the characters are generally not all that important, but sometimes get a chance to shine.

Discovery did disappoint me slightly by not sticking to its guns on that though. When Burnham became captain, the focus should have shifted to another character. *ahem, Saru.

LoL if you consider the main character being court martialed and being sentenced to life in prison not screwing up well...
As stated, the show was always about Burnham being the main character. TNG presented Picard as always right or the TNG main crew as always right and outsiders are treated as upsetting the status quo (Shelby, Jellico, Nechayev). The holy trinity of Kirk, McCoy and Spock lands on planet and leave it 'always right'

 

[evilchumlee]

LoL if you consider the main character being court martialed and being sentenced to life in prison not screwing up well...

She was 100% right in everything she did... the other stuff wasn't "screwing up", it was blaming her and using her a scapegoat.

The show would have been more interesting if she actually DID start the war through her actions. Imagine an alternate world where T'kuvma was preaching to the rest of the Klingons about how it's time to heed the Federation's call for peace and actually sit down to discuss with them, meanwhile Burnham's trauma in regards to her experience with Klingons causes her to go conspiracy nut about how the Klingons are going to attack, and then ACTUALLY DOES start the war by killing a bunch of Klingons who were inviting the Federation to come in peace...

The show would have had much more of my attention.

 

[fireproof78]

She was 100% right in everything she did... the other stuff wasn't "screwing up", it was blaming her and using her a scapegoat.

Well, easy to do given attempted mutiny, assault on a superior officer, violating a direct order, and giving an unlawful order, all preceeded the attack.

 

[evilchumlee]

Well, easy to do given attempted mutiny, assault on a superior officer, violating a direct order, and giving an unlawful order, all preceeded the attack.

All done because everyone around was desperately trying to ignore Burnham, who is always right, and they need to learn the lesson that Burnham is always right.

The only bright spot there was that after all of it and Burnham proving she was right, they were still like "Yeah but, you still did all of these things..." I'll give credit where credit is due. I'll acknowledge that if this was a situation where Kirk did all of this, Starfleet Command would say "Well Kirk, you committed like 14 crimes but you did save the day so... rather than punishment, lets throw you a party." Although to some extent, given that Burnham WAS actually right, I think I might have preferred that outcome.

A minor quibble I have, that I think could have added a layer of depth was to give Detmer a bit more to do, and absolutely NOT forgive Burnham. Detmer, more than anyone else, literally bears the scars of Burnham's actions. I wish there was more there, even post-Season 2, having Detmer go with Discovery out of a sense of duty, NOT some loyalty to Burnham.

 

[Quantum21]

All done because everyone around was desperately trying to ignore Burnham, who is always right, and they need to learn the lesson that Burnham is always right.

The only bright spot there was that after all of it and Burnham proving she was right, they were still like "Yeah but, you still did all of these things..." I'll give credit where credit is due. I'll acknowledge that if this was a situation where Kirk did all of this, Starfleet Command would say "Well Kirk, you committed like 14 crimes but you did save the day so... rather than punishment, lets throw you a party." Although to some extent, given that Burnham WAS actually right, I think I might have preferred that outcome.

A minor quibble I have, that I think could have added a layer of depth was to give Detmer a bit more to do, and absolutely NOT forgive Burnham. Detmer, more than anyone else, literally bears the scars of Burnham's actions. I wish there was more there, even post-Season 2, having Detmer go with Discovery out of a sense of duty, NOT some loyalty to Burnham.

LGarth did a rundown on this erroneous supposition recently, go look at it.

 

[SJGardner]

The entire idea that Burnham is always right and cannot do anything wrong should be dispelled merely by what happened to Airiam. She was desperately begging Burnham to open the airlock and vent her into space because there was no way the latter could regain access to the data center and stop Control before it would finish, but Burnham flat-out refused to do it even after Spock bluntly told her it was either her or Airiam, and Pike even directly ordered her to open the airlock. She just kept standing there stun-locked, listening to Airiam's tearful pleas until Nhan could regain enough strength to open the airlock herself.

 

[Quantum21]

Burnham in many ways is Kirk with more flaws. She's not always right and has admitted as much. She overextends herself. Her childhood makes her want to be perfect. She gets overly attached to people she admires or loves.

 

[Commander Troi]

Controversial as it may be, I *like* Burnham. She screws up all the time. But she's always trying to do better.

 

[fireproof78]

Controversial as it may be, I *like* Burnham. She screws up all the time. But she's always trying to do better.

Same.

Burnham is one of my favorite characters in Trek. A character dealing with significant trauma and working through it.

 

[ToddCam]

What does a username crossed out mean?

I also really like Burnham.

 

[Tuskin38]

What does a username crossed out mean?

They're banned.

Burnham, who is always right,

Nope.

 

[Quantum21]

Controversial as it may be, I *like* Burnham. She screws up all the time. But she's always trying to do better.

I Don't think it's controversial. Most people love the character.

Yes, imperfection makes us idenitify with her. There are people who judge her harshly in comparison to previous Trek characters who did much the same things but with less rationale for reasons of their own...

 

[BillJ]

There are people who judge her harshly in comparison to previous Trek characters who did much the same things but with less rationale for reasons of their own...

It has happened with every Trek since TNG, where fans harshly criticize the newcomer. I'd be concerned if it hadn't happened here.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Burnham is always right.

So wrong.

 

[evilchumlee]

So wrong.

When has Burnham been wrong?

 

[Richard S. Ta]

When has Burnham been wrong?

Others have provided instances above, which you’ve clearly and directly ignored.

I’ve no wish to run over the same ground with somebody who is obviously unwilling to see what is clearly there in place of what they want to see.

 

[evilchumlee]

Others have provided instances above, which you’ve clearly and directly ignored.

The examples I addressed and have shown that Burnham was right?

The entire idea that Burnham is always right and cannot do anything wrong should be dispelled merely by what happened to Airiam. She was desperately begging Burnham to open the airlock and vent her into space because there was no way the latter could regain access to the data center and stop Control before it would finish, but Burnham flat-out refused to do it even after Spock bluntly told her it was either her or Airiam, and Pike even directly ordered her to open the airlock. She just kept standing there stun-locked, listening to Airiam's tearful pleas until Nhan could regain enough strength to open the airlock herself.

This one rolled in unnoticed for me, but i'll address this one too.

This is the closest thing there is to "Burnham was actually wrong", but it's a weak example... it's not really Burnham being wrong, she full well knew what she needed to what and what the right decision was. She was just unable to act due to her emotional state.

Burnham wasn't trying to make an argument that Ariam didn't need to be spaced... she just froze and couldn't pull the trigger.

That's not "being wrong". Although honestly it is one of the better Burnham moments, it's "being human".

I'm not making the argument that Burnham has no flaws. She's an absolute emotional wreck. I'm arguing that Burnham is always right, and the show goes out of its way to make anyone who dares question her just look foolish for ever doing so.

There's also nothing wrong with liking the character. It's ok for everyone to not like the same things. Of all places, a Star Trek forum should know that.

 

[fireproof78]

Of all places, a Star Trek forum should know that.

It doesn't.

 

[evilchumlee]

It doesn't.

Well then, maybe it's up to all of us to do alittle better.