What do we think of Alien 3?
- Thread starter saturn5
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MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Couldn't agree more!
Yes the Alien series is survivalist but that means people SURVIVE! And Ripley and co have all more earned that right, not to be arbitarily killed off by some director who didn't give a damn about the series and just wanted to make an appalling slasher if in space. Personally I've known plenty of soldiers like Hudson, he's a very beliveable and well rounded character, you can't expect everyone to be stoical in the face of such an extreme situation, it wouldn't be realistic if he was as calm as Hicks and Vasquez.
I think what makes James Cameron such a great director is that he can combine many different themes, he writes great action, great suspense, hugely imaginative technology, great characters and dialogue, a feminist sensibility and humour
Ripley's family is all good to me! Out of 200 colonists and 15 members of the rescue party there are 4 survivors? One of whom is horribly scarred and one of whom is ripped in half? Hardly Disney? To say that every film that doesn't end like the original Night of the Living Dead is invalid is nonsense. Cameron's vision is much more in keeping with Scott's than Fincher's, in fact Alien3 is the ONLY film in the series with a 'stupid, nihilistic, slasher pic in space' quality, the others are all about the triumph of humanity and survival, Alien3 is the exception, not Aliens. The later films whilst not great are smart enough to go back to the mood of Alien/Aliens and pretend that Alien 3 never happened
Hey, just because Aliens is intelligent doesn't mean it can't have a rousing, heartpumping punch the air moment!
(interestingly people did the same in the limo off the bridge scene in True Lies)
I actually thought the Predalien was ok, at least it was something new, like the hybrid. Also a GOT-ficcers delight if that's your fetish.
Remember the Queen was just trapped in the landing gear which was seperated from the rest of the ship so wouldn't have depressusired it. Even if it did Bishop would have just flown sub-orbital until Ripley could get everyone into suits
You should check out IMDB, the reviews for Aliens/Alien 3 make interesting reading
People don't want to accept Alien 3 as canonical because it ruins their enjoyment of the first 2 wonderful films, makes them pointless. That's why it's the worst sequal ever, not only awful in itself but robs you of your enjoyment of what's gone before.
The 'it's all a dream' theory isn't actually that far fetched, it explained the confused and sometimes nonsensical nature of 3 and 4. Also the last lines of Aliens is Newt asking Ripley can they dream on the way home and she tells her they both can (beautiful scene, smiling just thinking of it).
This fanfic probably says it better than I ever could;
http://movies.adultfanfiction.net/story.php?no=544177708
(written by the Googlecaptain who writes happy endings to all films/TV/dark fanfic ever, he/she is the Captain Kirk in the Kubyashu-Maru of the fanfic world, won't accept a no win scenario)
Oh, no they haven't. They were a bunch of disposable stereotypes.
He's just Lambert from the first movie, only whinier. Morse from Alien 3 is how you do the whining character RIGHT.
He just plagiarizes multiple films that not to many people knew about so he can't be sued. He did the same when he made Terminator.
Pure Disney. No one (including Newt) cares that all those others died, Ripley hardly cares her REAL daughter is gone.
And why? Because of some random kid she hardly knows?
No, A3 is far closer to Alien's spirit.
Hey, just because Aliens is intelligent doesn't mean it can't have a rousing, heartpumping punch the air moment!
(interestingly people did the same in the limo off the bridge scene in True Lies)
No duh, they're both Cameron cliche-storms!
No, mostly just the Aliens fans who can't handle dark storytelling (REAL dark storytelling, not Jimbo's fluff)
I talked with Googlecaptain over a year ago, she came to agree with me on A3's right to exist as a legitimate sequel.
And by your logic, Ripley can still be floating in space ready to be rescued after "Alien" and EVERYTHING after the first film is a dream.
Firstly as to the question of the vacuum remember, the Queen is closer to the hatch that Ripley, she been battered to buggery by Ripley and has several tons of powerloader crushing her. That's why Ripley can hold on and she can't.
Aliens characters aren't cliches, I met plenty of Gorman's, Apones etc in the military, they're very real (JC's brother was a marine and helped him with the script). Hudson's not really like Lambert who comes apart (can you blame her?), by contrast he still fights to the death, it's more of an aggressive hysteria and he's a very different character to begin with, a wisecracking braggart. They're so good that they've been copied by everyone since which is why they seem so familar now.
Yes, JC plagarises The Outer Limits etc but he puts his unique spin on all. I'm sure the Aliens survivors are sorry for those they've lost but allow them a moment to celebrate their survival?
Let's see;
Alien; Ripley and Jones curl up to sleep as Sleeping Beauty
Aliens; Ripley, Hicks, Newt and Bishop curl up to sleep
Alien3; only survivor, murderer/rapist whose name we don't know and who's only had one line and whom we can't tell apart from all the others etc get's hauled off to maximum security prison forvever?
Alien4; Ripley, Call and the rest of the pirates land on Earth and presumably go off to become Firefly style adventurers with Ripley as a female Mal Reynolds
AvP; Lex walks to the snowcat, radios the ship for help and get's picked up by the helicopter
AvP;R-the Green Berets help the town's survivors and take the blaster pistol to add to the MIBs collection of Predator technology from Predator 2
So you tell me, which ending here stands out? Real storylines are not necessarily dismal, there's room for triumphalism in the world
Who know's? Maybe the whole Alien series is a dream by Ripley in hypersleep and at any moment Mother will wake her, Dallas, Lambert etc up as the Nostromo arrives at Earth?
You spoke to the Googlecaptain? Really? I've tried the link but it's long dead. And the Googlecaptains a she? I always figured either he/she was a very kinky lesbian or a gay guy in denial? Do you have a working link?
Aliens characters aren't cliches, I met plenty of Gorman's, Apones etc in the military, they're very real (JC's brother was a marine and helped him with the script). Hudson's not really like Lambert who comes apart (can you blame her?), by contrast he still fights to the death, it's more of an aggressive hysteria and he's a very different character to begin with, a wisecracking braggart. They're so good that they've been copied by everyone since which is why they seem so familar now.
Yes, JC plagarises The Outer Limits etc but he puts his unique spin on all. I'm sure the Aliens survivors are sorry for those they've lost but allow them a moment to celebrate their survival?
Let's see;
Alien; Ripley and Jones curl up to sleep as Sleeping Beauty
Aliens; Ripley, Hicks, Newt and Bishop curl up to sleep
Alien3; only survivor, murderer/rapist whose name we don't know and who's only had one line and whom we can't tell apart from all the others etc get's hauled off to maximum security prison forvever?
Alien4; Ripley, Call and the rest of the pirates land on Earth and presumably go off to become Firefly style adventurers with Ripley as a female Mal Reynolds
AvP; Lex walks to the snowcat, radios the ship for help and get's picked up by the helicopter
AvP;R-the Green Berets help the town's survivors and take the blaster pistol to add to the MIBs collection of Predator technology from Predator 2
So you tell me, which ending here stands out? Real storylines are not necessarily dismal, there's room for triumphalism in the world
Who know's? Maybe the whole Alien series is a dream by Ripley in hypersleep and at any moment Mother will wake her, Dallas, Lambert etc up as the Nostromo arrives at Earth?
You spoke to the Googlecaptain? Really? I've tried the link but it's long dead. And the Googlecaptains a she? I always figured either he/she was a very kinky lesbian or a gay guy in denial? Do you have a working link?
Michael Jan Friedman's Aliens novel, Original Sin (which picks up after Alien: Resurrection, a period that Dark Horse has left untouched), is as close to a Firefly novel as you'll get.
I liked "Alien", LOVED "Aliens" but I like to pretend that "Alien 3" doesn't even exist in the "Aliens continuity". I saw it once in the theater when it came out, hated it, and have never seen it again- nor did I see the next sequel movie either. After everything that they went through in "Aliens" to get off LV426, particularly at the end, the decision of the directors to simply kill off Newt, Hicks, Bishop, and, ultimately Ripley herself- all within the space of this movie is utterly unforgivable. Why they thought that THIS was the right way for the storyline to go escapes me plus the way that they got there, specifically explaining that the Queen Mother Alien supposedly laid an egg on the ship before she died wasn't even foreshadowed- retconning it to fit the storyline needs of "Alien 3". Any egg that might have got laid on the ship in the cargo hold should've conceivably been blown out into space when the Queen Mother was.
I liked "Alien", LOVED "Aliens" but I like to pretend that "Alien 3" doesn't even exist in the "Aliens continuity". I saw it once in the theater when it came out, hated it, and have never seen it again- nor did I see the next sequel movie either. After everything that they went through in "Aliens" to get off LV426, particularly at the end, the decision of the directors to simply kill off Newt, Hicks, Bishop, and, ultimately Ripley herself- all within the space of this movie is utterly unforgivable. Why they thought that THIS was the right way for the storyline to go escapes me plus the way that they got there, specifically explaining that the Queen Mother Alien supposedly laid an egg on the ship before she died wasn't even foreshadowed- retconning it to fit the storyline needs of "Alien 3". Any egg that might have got laid on the ship in the cargo hold should've conceivably been blown out into space when the Queen Mother was.
Yeah, I think plenty of people feel like that, the series never recovered and the commercial success of 3, 4, AvP and AvP;R is largely based on the fading glory of Alien/Aliens.
Actually watched Alien 4 today and not hard to see the beginnings of Firefly, Ron Pearlman's character in particular a dead ringer for Jayne (what a shame Adam Baldwin couldn't do his cameo in AvP;R). Gotta say Firefly never put the hook in me the same way Joss' other series did but I wouldn't mind reading that novel. I think after 3 Dark Horse just gave up on continuity and who can blame them?
I like to think Ripley and co returned to Acheron to solve the mystery of the derelict then after a few years of Firefly style adventures she and Call make their fortune, get married and start an orphanage.
What a lame, lame, LAME story that would've been. Alien is not Star Wars.
No, Star Wars waited for the 4th film to screw up the series!
And hey, works for me, after all she's been through she deserves to live happily ever after.
Nah, that's lame. Death is a GREAT ending to her character, it defies convention which is a major part of the Alien series. No one expected Captain Dallas to be killed off so quickly in "Alien", and no one expected them to so heartlessly (and REALISTICALLY) kill off characters in A3 including Ripley. It's what makes the movies so good.
Rii
Rear Admiral
Nah, Alien 3's ending is still brilliant even though they brought her back to life in Alien Resurrection.
Nah, Alien 3's ending is still brilliant even though they brought her back to life in Alien Resurrection.
Brilliant and complete shit are not the same thing. Aliens was brilliant. Alien 3 was completE shit. See how that works?
No one expected them to take a great franchise like alien and take a diherrea dump all over it when they made the third installment, but they did... It's what makes it so very, very ass.
No, it was that you didn' expect Ripley to be the one to take charge and be the survivor. And would have less problem with the end of Alien 3 if everyone else didn't die too. Glad they brought her back in part 4 and who knows, maybe Hicks and Newt were cloned too and they escaped the ship when the bugs broke loose?
To be honest, no one expected Alien to be a franchise. It just ended up developing into one when James Cameron was looking for something to do.
Brilliant and cliche are not the same thing. Aliens was a cliche-storm. Alien 3 was complete un-cliche. See how that works?
Fixed
.
Rii
Rear Admiral
Nah, Alien 3's ending is still brilliant even though they brought her back to life in Alien Resurrection.
Brilliant and complete shit are not the same thing. Aliens was brilliant. Alien 3 was completE shit. See how that works?
Nah.
Am I the only one who doesn't see Weaver's character in A:R as the same one who dies in Alien 3? I watched the two back to back, and the clone was far too...inhuman to be Ripley. Sure who we saw had Ripley's DNA and memories, but she also had a lot attributes of the Xenomorph, and I'm not just talking the acid blood and physical ability. A lot of her personality seemed to be influenced by Xeno behaviours; not only was she more aggressive, there was a definite predatory and sexual edge to her. Also, would the Ripley we saw sacrifice herself in Alien 3 say with genuine sadness "Sorry" to the Xeno-abomination before killing it.
EDIT: Also, what possible reason would anyone have for cloning Newt or Hicks? All we'd get are complete blanks. The only reason Ripley came back with her memories is because the Xeno-DNA that got blended seemed to have the ability to carry genetic memories.
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