What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

[shapeshifter]

It made me laugh. That and the whole Kirk dying scene really reminded me of why I have hated the idea of them rehashing old stories since someone first proposed they would years ago.

Having seen TWOK I've been there seen that, already felt those emotions so it was a meh moment for me. But yeah, it wasn't made for longtime fans so congratulations newbies, hope it worked as intended for you.

However the following scenes of Spock chasing down Khan, getting his ass handed to him and Uhura's eventual charge to his rescue redeemed the ending for me.

 

[datalogan]

When did "iconic" come to mean "it's familiar and we like it a lot?"

Try googling "iconic Star Trek moments" or "top 10 Star Trek moments" sometime.

Here's what I found: ABC: #3, Mania: #1, IGN: #1, Badass Digest: #2, Entertainment Tonight: "most bittersweet scene of the whole franchise"

The only other item that appears on half those lists is "City on the Edge of Forever".

The Death of Spock is the most famous movie in the history of Star Trek -- rightly so.

So, your question is stupid.

Your answer doesn't address his question. He was asking when "iconic" came to mean "it's familiar and we like it a lot."

You answered him by showing episodes that were familiar, and that people liked a lot. So you didn't answer his question, you only made his point for him.

Definition of iconic:
Of, relating to, or having the characters of:
An image; a representation
An important and enduring symbol
One who is the object of great attention and devotion

Spock's death scene in ST:II definitely as an image, and also a representation of friendship. It's enduring exactly because it is still familiar to a lot of people 30 years later. The fact that we "like it a lot" is just another way of saying we give it a lot of attention and devotion.

I think "it's familiar and we like it a lot" is a very passable definition for "iconic" in current English.

 

[Sector 7]

It caught me completely off-guard, but with the way Abrams has been handling Spock, I should have expected it.

I would much rather have seen him grit his teeth, cry a single tear, and unconsciously crush a nearby object before standing up, whispering "Khan" and striding off with full intentions of destroying the man who killed his best friend.

Sarek to Spock: "Emotions run deep within our race. In many ways more deeply than in humans. Logic offers a serenity humans seldom experience. The control of feelings so that they do not control you."

Since the loss of Spock's mother, planet, Pike and more... Spock has been holding back those emotions. He admits this in the shuttle to Uhura as they are heading to Klingon homeworld surface. At some point Spock will hit the breaking point where all those deep emotions must surface, in this case the death of Kirk.

I lost my dad February 18, 2011. I held it together because while everyone else was grieving: I made his final arrangements; kept my stepmom together; dealt with the hospital, funeral home, finances, etc. I was "emotionally compromised" and, eventually, after everything was done I broke down and cried uncontrollably.

We all reach that point eventually... as did Spock when he cried for Kirk and screamed, "Khan!" This time around, I felt the emotion much more deeply than TWOK (heresy, though that may be to some). It did not seem nearly as contrived as it did in TWOK, the emotional build-up was there. The plot prepared us for it, as I mentioned above.

I saw the movie today in 3D with my brother. Tonight, we discussed it in more detail. He only saw TWOK once quite a while ago and only vaguely remembered the scene, but also thought it was better done this time. He's not even a Trekkie!

No one in our theater laughed nor even scoffed at the scene today. The family seated in front of us commented afterward that it was done better this time around. My brother was heard to say, "If they keep making movies like this, I'll have to become a Trekkie!" (He tortured me for years about liking Trek.)

 

[Spock/Uhura Fan]

It caught me completely off-guard, but with the way Abrams has been handling Spock, I should have expected it.

I would much rather have seen him grit his teeth, cry a single tear, and unconsciously crush a nearby object before standing up, whispering "Khan" and striding off with full intentions of destroying the man who killed his best friend.

Sarek to Spock: "Emotions run deep within our race. In many ways more deeply than in humans. Logic offers a serenity humans seldom experience. The control of feelings so that they do not control you."

Since the loss of Spock's mother, planet, Pike and more... Spock has been holding back those emotions. He admits this in the shuttle to Uhura as they are heading to Klingon homeworld surface. At some point Spock will hit the breaking point where all those deep emotions must surface, in this case the death of Kirk.

I lost my dad February 18, 2011. I held it together because while everyone else was grieving: I made his final arrangements; kept my stepmom together; dealt with the hospital, funeral home, finances, etc. I was "emotionally compromised" and, eventually, after everything was done I broke down and cried uncontrollably.

We all reach that point eventually... as did Spock when he cried for Kirk and screamed, "Khan!" This time around, I felt the emotion much more deeply than TWOK (heresy, though that may be to some). It did not seem nearly as contrived as it did in TWOK, the emotional build-up was there. The plot prepared us for it, as I mentioned above.

I saw the movie today in 3D with my brother. Tonight, we discussed it in more detail. He only saw TWOK once quite a while ago and only vaguely remembered the scene, but also thought it was better done this time. He's not even a Trekkie!

No one in our theater laughed nor even scoffed at the scene today. The family seated in front of us commented afterward that it was done better this time around. My brother was heard to say, "If they keep making movies like this, I'll have to become a Trekkie!" (He tortured me for years about liking Trek.)

I see what you're saying. I've had to deal with the same kind of grief when my dad died too, and it's something I would not wish on anyone. It never really leaves you. You just learn how to adjust. Having said this, Spock and his grief and its effects on him really, really wasn't handled well here. Not.At.All.

The 2009 movie handled it perfectly for Spock. I had hoped this film would have built on that, but as it's been said, they decided to "move in another direction."

 

[Maestro]

Interestingly enough, one of the central messages of TWOK was "How we deal with death is at least as important as we deal with life," and yet that quote never made it into STiD, and STiD managed to address it just as adroitly as TWOK did.

 

[ialfan]

I've always liked the idea that time is very hard to alter in Star Trek. In a world where Kirk grows up without guidance, or even a world where the Federation is replaced by an evil empire, the Enterprise always exists, and the same people end up on the ship (albeit with goatees and scars sometimes). Kind of the opposite of the Butterfly Effect. Even if Scotty gets stationed in the middle of nowhere, a huge coincidence will make him end up serving on the Enterprise. Huge milestones like the engine room scene will happen in every possible timeline, but sometimes with subtle differences.

And here in our world, there was NO chance of a Khan movie being made without the shout being included in it. If Kirk had done it, the audience would have erupted into laughter. I thought having Spock do it was a clever way to avoid that.

This. I really enjoyed seeing key moments play out in the alternate timeline in their slightly-off ways.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

And it was very well put, because I agree whole-heartedly with what you said. You can't measure friendship in years.

It's more than years. In ST:WOK, Kirk and Spock are clearly very dear friends. Even to a newbie. In STID, they're so adversarial, I could not see them as being friends at all. Maybe a little on Kirk's side, cause he was trying a little. And part of me thinks he was only trying because of the meld with Spock Prime. But I saw nothing that said Spock thought of him as a dear friend. Certainly nothing to justify his reaction. Now, Uhura dieing , maybe. But he kept his cool in ST09 even after seeing his mother die. Sure Kirk finally pushes him over the edge, but it took her death and Vulcan's destruction to do it. None of the events of STID come close to that level of personal pain for Spock.

Dunno

Spoiler

he mind-melded with Pike as Pike was dying and experienced all of Pike's emotions (can't quote verbatim). But he mentions this when Uhura calls him out on his feelings in the shuttle.

Exactly.

Besides, they were adversarial, but I don't see that making the bond any less significant. Also, as someone has put earlier, the entire film has this family-friendship arc going on, leading inevitably to this scene. It wasn't just thrown in there out of nowhere.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

[Also, as someone has put earlier, the entire film has this family-friendship arc going on,

And that's why it is so wonderfully TOS.

 

[Amaris]

Definition of iconic:
Of, relating to, or having the characters of:
An image; a representation
An important and enduring symbol
One who is the object of great attention and devotion

Spock's death scene in ST:II definitely as an image, and also a representation of friendship. It's enduring exactly because it is still familiar to a lot of people 30 years later. The fact that we "like it a lot" is just another way of saying we give it a lot of attention and devotion.

I think "it's familiar and we like it a lot" is a very passable definition for "iconic" in current English.

Okay, I can see how that works. It's just another one of those words whose meaning is modified by culture over time, then.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

[Also, as someone has put earlier, the entire film has this family-friendship arc going on,

And that's why it is so wonderfully TOS.

Indeed. It makes me wonder what people who say this isn't Star Trek think really is Star Trek.

 

[Amaris]

[Also, as someone has put earlier, the entire film has this family-friendship arc going on,

And that's why it is so wonderfully TOS.

Indeed. It makes me wonder what people who say this isn't Star Trek think really is Star Trek.

Because some people don't like change, especially when it's something they love and hold dear. That's not intended as an insult, though, should any of those people be reading this. Star Trek is a warm comforter for some, with fond memories ingrained in it's pattern. Changing the pattern of that cloth may be enough to distress them.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Because some people don't like change, especially when it's something they love and hold dear. That's not intended as an insult, though, should any of those people be reading this. Star Trek is a warm comforter for some, with fond memories ingrained in it's pattern. Changing the pattern of that cloth may be enough to distress them.

But it's not like the old cloth is burned up.

 

[EJD1984]

I just saw the movie yesterday. Overall I liked it, but I did cringe at the Spock "Kaaaaaahn" yell. For me personally, it felt a little tacky. Plus that was done so perfectly by Shatner in TWOK, its become iconic and should have not been attempted to recreate.

I'm sure the writers could have come up with something else dramatic that could have made an iconic moment for Quinto.

 

[abaldwin360]

Okay, so I had been spoiled by a review that got posted claiming it was "spoiler-free", even though it mentioned "an "Iconic scene" being remade. Having seen the trailers, I had a feeling it would be this one. What I did't expect was that it would be Kirk in the chamber.

I had also heard that it was a word-for-word retread. I don't know about all of you guys, but I have an excellent memory. I had every single line from every Trek movie memorized when I was like 10 years old. I could recite them for you, if you asked me to. And this scene was NOT a word for word remake. Actually, I thought it was quite subtle, as far as the dialogue is concerned. Are there some direct quotes? Yes. But they are used apporpriately. The moment that Kirk tells Spock he is scared, that was the turning point for me. That was when I truly got caught up in the moment and forgot that this scene was an homage. And Spock finally realizing that they are friends, and how special that friendship is, is a revelation. I thought the scene was beautiful, gripping, and heart-breaking. I went in dreading it, and came out loving it.

I admit, I had forgotten about Khan's blood for a few seconds, and truly believed they actually had the balls to kill Captain Kirk. It made me angry... very angry. Like Spock. The movie almost lost me. Then I had "duh" moment and remembered the blood. But with this universe, who knows, maybe they would have the balls to kill off a main cast member.

I did the same, except I read the spoilers on purpose ("spoilers" never bothered me much).

I watched TWOK just a few weeks before ID came out, and it wasn't a word for word rehash (which is what I was expecting).

Scotty's line "You better get down here, fast." was directly lifted. The rest was paraphrased. The scene was very similar, but not directly lifted.

Which brings me to another issues I've had with the more negative reviews of the movie.

I've seen several people say that this movie was a rehash or ripoff of TWOK. It felt more like a different take on "Space Seed" to me with one scene that was a callback to TWOK.

I mean, if someone doesn't like the movie, fine, different strokes for different folks. But the entire movie wasn't a rehash of TWOK.

 

[KittyDuran]

Also, as someone has put earlier, the entire film has this family-friendship arc going on...

My feeling as well...“What would you do for your family or your friends?” Would you bend the rules/regulations for a friend (Kirk), murder to preserve your “family” (Khan) or a commit a terrorist act as a trade for saving your daughter’s life (Harewood)?

 

[sj4iy]

It's more than years. In ST:WOK, Kirk and Spock are clearly very dear friends. Even to a newbie. In STID, they're so adversarial, I could not see them as being friends at all. Maybe a little on Kirk's side, cause he was trying a little. And part of me thinks he was only trying because of the meld with Spock Prime. But I saw nothing that said Spock thought of him as a dear friend. Certainly nothing to justify his reaction. Now, Uhura dieing , maybe. But he kept his cool in ST09 even after seeing his mother die. Sure Kirk finally pushes him over the edge, but it took her death and Vulcan's destruction to do it. None of the events of STID come close to that level of personal pain for Spock.

Dunno

Spoiler

he mind-melded with Pike as Pike was dying and experienced all of Pike's emotions (can't quote verbatim). But he mentions this when Uhura calls him out on his feelings in the shuttle.

Exactly.

Besides, they were adversarial, but I don't see that making the bond any less significant. Also, as someone has put earlier, the entire film has this family-friendship arc going on, leading inevitably to this scene. It wasn't just thrown in there out of nowhere.

^This. We see that they are friends in the very first scene in the movie when Kirk refuses to let Spock die and loses his job. Spock even defends Kirk's actions and tries to take the blame himself in Pike's office. And even though Kirk gets upset with Spock for filing the report, he still tells him that he will miss him. This all happens at the beginning to establish that they have become good friends. The movie then becomes a journey for the two of them. And really, in real life, people are bonded by shared experiences, and the two of them have already gone through enough onscreen and off to establish that they are, indeed, friends. They have such a relationship that they have to trust each other's abilities and opinions. If they didn't, they could never work together as Captain and First Officer.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

"There is a theory. There could be some logic to the belief that time is fluid, like a river, with currents, eddies, backwash." - Spock, The City on the Edge of Forever

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Loved the homage scene. I teared up just as I did in TWOK. Spcok yelling Khan was way better than shatner's over the top non-sensical scream. I've always hated that so I was glad to see Quinto blow that away.

 

[Spock/Uhura Fan]

I guess we're all different. For me, it was the most out of character and illogical thing I've ever seen from Spock. The majority of that scene was mind-numbingly bad.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Watch it a second time. I thought it was utter face palm the first time, the second time I forgave it, the third time I liked it and the fourth time I started crying.

My god I sound like I'm in a cult.