What can the Star Trek movies learn from the recent Star Wars films?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by The Overlord, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I disagree. I think Luke grows, willing to accept his failure and face it. That it was an astral projection takes nothing away from the learning.

    Also, Luke has a great moment in Rise of Skywalker.
     
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  2. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    To me the thing that they most can learn, and perhaps should have learned from TWOK through TVH, is that if you want to write a trilogy of films, then write a trilogy of films that will have narrative cohesion from beginning to end.

    If you're not willing to do that, then have a hard rule where later installments are required to push through the developments in the earlier ones, rather than ignoring or resetting them and making it readily apparent just how little advance planning there was.

    Hell, in retrospect it's perhaps a miracle that TWOK through TVH work as well as they do.
     
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  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Yup. By all accounts it really shouldn't have, going from Meyer and then to Nimoy, with Spock's fate being in doubt at the end of TWOK.
     
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  4. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That "Genesis Trilogy" of TWOK through TVH is one of the most underrated elements of the entire franchise, and maybe even in sci-fi genre films on the whole. It was a great cohesive story, it had significant arcs for the characters, had tons of appropriate tonal variance, was loyal to the source material, and still brought a fresh perspective on the franchise and "universe."
     
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  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He sacrificed his life so the rebellion could live on. Sounds like as good an end for a hero as any.
     
  6. Serveaux

    Serveaux Insane American Premium Member

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    The TOS-based films made it up as they went along, movie by movie. There was no plan.

    Seems like the best approach.
     
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  7. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think the TOS films got lucky.

    TNG didn't repeat their success.
     
  8. seigezunt

    seigezunt Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Lesson from Star Wars? Don't try to dial back from a good film just because the worst fans hated it.
     
  9. Ocanain

    Ocanain Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Go woke, go broke.
     
  10. Serveaux

    Serveaux Insane American Premium Member

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    Yeah, no. The current SW films have made a metric fuckton of money.

    Stupid fan videos on Youtube analyzing how much less these very profitable films allegedly made than they might have if they'd done it the way some fanbois would have preferred, based on bad data and worthless "everybody knows" formulae, are not grounds for declaring some kind of victory over progressive values.
     
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  11. Ocanain

    Ocanain Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I can see you are quite passionate on your views on this topic but we are not talking about negative reviews from fanatic outliers here. It is in fact a majority of the audience. While fans of the original are most vocal, they are by no means the only opposition to the new films.

    The regressive values in the new films are not the only reason for the bad reception but they are a part of it and the bottom line has been heavily affected.

    Go woke, go broke is still just a figure of speech and not a literal statement on zero profit but it’s also apt to mention that other franchises have capitalised on their namesake to poor reviews such as Ghostbusters and Captain Marvel; to not go literally broke but perform dramatically under projection.
     
  12. Serveaux

    Serveaux Insane American Premium Member

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    Yes, it certainly is in no way an accurate statement based on fact.

    Some butthurt among the hard core is not a measure of anything that matters. Boo-hoo.
     
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. But neither franchise seems willing to stick with their guns, sadly.

    Money is the only thing that talks. Not the rage against the (Hollywood) machine on the Interwebz.
     
  14. Lt.Smokey

    Lt.Smokey Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, this was bound to come up. I wonder if it isn't so much that the franchise has changed, but rather the audience has become polarized and hyper-sensitive to any political innuendo. I don't think that either Roddenberry nor Lucas were ever particularly subtle. I just think the audiences were more willing to watch and enjoy, rather than pick apart the politics.
     
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  15. Ocanain

    Ocanain Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I would certainly agree that your point is a part of it, in that cultural political sensitivities are much higher than they once were. I also think that political cultural agendas are pushing harder into film and other media too, than they once were. It’s a good point though.
     
  16. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The prequel trilogy was hated by the vast majority of fans too, and it's lead female character died of a broken heart.

    Star Wars fans love to hate Star Wars.
     
  17. drt

    drt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A lot of them hated Return of the Jedi as well. I think the majority of SW fans like the idea of Star Wars more than the actual execution.
     
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  18. Lt.Smokey

    Lt.Smokey Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    For real. Amazing that there are still so many fans when a lot of them think the last good one came out in 1980.:)
     
  19. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Commander Red Shirt

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    Try to be original with the story, or at least have a twist on the original. i.e. The First Order should have been the rebels of the new trilogy; Starkiller Base should have been owned by the New Republic and fired on remaining First Order worlds.

    If your doing a trilogy, properly plan it out instead of doing it film by film.

    A bit of fan service for legendary characters (i.e. a scene with all of them together at once) wouldn’t hurt.

    Certain ideas left on the cutting room floor might be better ideas than what makes it into the film.





    Fans will edit together better scenes in the movie than those that produced and directed it that also make more sense.



    Fans have their own cool ideas too. The entire The Last Jedi being a vision of the future of Luke Skywalker once he touched the lightsaber was a cool idea that I read once and liked.

    It’s one thing to have a female character like Uhura be written as a strong character. It’s another to make said female character captain, make her a Mary Sue, and turn it into a girl power film. Movies perceived to be girl power films (Terminator: Dark Fate, MIB: International, recent Ghostbusters, the recent Charlie's Angels remake) don't do well at the box office.
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Ok, that is actually pretty cool. I like that and I love that scene and Last Jedi.
     
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