Nope. No "danger" at all.
Of course. It's a kind of frustrated attempt to count coup.
What are your thoughts about seeing the prime universe again?
- Thread starter The Rock
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Nope. No "danger" at all.
Of course. It's a kind of frustrated attempt to count coup.
How dare people have an opinion based upon limited information?
And, I know, people should admit when they are wrong but this is the Internet. Admission of guilt is as common as it is in the US Capitol.
Also, I'm always fascinated y the concept of a larger continuity being created and established. I grew up with limited series and books that I often wished would be continued but never were. I'm not saying larger continuity is a bad thing, but, at some point, one of the things I liked was that the books I read were something new.
Those wanting something new that isn't horribly straight-jacketed by 700 episodes of Star Trek might consider checking out products not labeled Star Trek.
A
Amaris
Guest
It's interesting to me because this thread exists solely to try and rub it in the faces of people who said that the new series wasn't going to be set in the prime universe. I actually admitted that I was wrong, that it ended up being set in the prime universe. This thread has been made in bad faith, and I'm rather surprised it has been allowed to exist, as generally mockery and trolling threads not made in TNZ are nixed rather quickly.
I did use it once just recently in this thread! I guess it's not worthwhile if no one noticed!
Mr Awe
I'm noticing. Use multiquote from now on, please.
...Are you implying that prior Trek was straight-jacketed by continuity, and didn't innovate?
Coz it certainly looks that way, when you say that people shouldn't watch Trek if they don't like those things. Admittedly, I've seen those implications made about Star Trek before. It's just not usually from their defenders.
Here is my problem with this thread.
The fans who are stoked on the return of the Prime Timeline aspect of the 'Trek franchise, the very ones who can't take the idea of having the Kelvin Timeline films (to the point of wanting Paramount's efforts to fail, and verbally so) are the same clowns who weren't there when ENT was struggling in the ratings, and who weren't there to keep NEM afloat. So, I find many of the responses, the ones who are stoked to see STD disingenuous. Not all, but enough to warrant my "attention". And while I will support STD, like I do all aspects of 'Trek fandom, I suspect that these so-called fans will sandbag STD, like they have done so before, which will effectively kill the franchise. I am hoping otherwise, but an aspect of 'Trek fans tend to act in a way that is...a bit much, to my liking.
The fans who are stoked on the return of the Prime Timeline aspect of the 'Trek franchise, the very ones who can't take the idea of having the Kelvin Timeline films (to the point of wanting Paramount's efforts to fail, and verbally so) are the same clowns who weren't there when ENT was struggling in the ratings, and who weren't there to keep NEM afloat. So, I find many of the responses, the ones who are stoked to see STD disingenuous. Not all, but enough to warrant my "attention". And while I will support STD, like I do all aspects of 'Trek fandom, I suspect that these so-called fans will sandbag STD, like they have done so before, which will effectively kill the franchise. I am hoping otherwise, but an aspect of 'Trek fans tend to act in a way that is...a bit much, to my liking.
You will find there is a middle ground.
I didn't support ENT or NEM, I was off dealing with life, and couldn't see those thing as easily as I had seen the others in my past because of a combination of my real life factors and the decisions made over their distribution in my part of the world. Of course, when I did catch up with them, ENT in particular, I didn't find anything that made me want to put the extra effort then needed to keep viewing. The worst you could accuse me of there, is that I sort of assumed it would get better or that I would the next show. There was no next show, and for me, it didn't get better.
I sat in the Cinema for Trek 09. Something I didn't do for Nemesis. Came out thinking that it was OK, but not great, and as I thought it through, liked it less. Even having picked up the countdown comics at its release (something I had not done since generations.) I disliked the reboots, watched the next one at home, and every criticism I have of them is not based in my 'Prime is where the heart is' anti reboot in general feeling, and I continue giving them a chance to impress me. I am even looking forward to seeing Beyond, perhaps more so now I know it's not the only game in town.
Over the years I managed to catch up with Voyager and the end of Ds9', found Voyager was better than I gave it credit for, or indeed do a lot of people. Throughout the years I still bought books, the odd videotape (had to see how Ds9 ended no matter how fiddly)
I have argued before about the logic of a return to Prime, and got met with precisely the kind of infuriating bad manners this thread was created as a reaction to. Two wrongs however, do not make a right.
This thread, while being essentially a riposte to that initial burst of bad manners from one segment of the fandom, is valid, because it's had proper discussion for the most part. Not idiotic Cumberpics that waste my bandwidth when I am on my phone. Sure, there's still some whining and insults thrown around. A hint of 'where were you in the great quality wars of the early millennium?' But the reality is, it's two groups of fans stating their cases and the sane ones showing its not a fight. No need to paint a group as the 'other' and get all tribal. If anything, a sensible discussion and people going 'well...guess you were right after all...I am surprised, but hey, what do you think this is all gonna turn out like?' Is a nice thing after the sheer unpleasantness leading up to it, and for the most part, we can hope those still banging the war drum and engaging in petty factionalism will calm and join in that kind of discussion, like many of what we're both sides of that argument already have.
The unpleasant behaviour should have been zapped back then, but wasn't and didn't occur in the neutral zone, this is just grown people dealing with their (our) little fracas. Peace isn't about stopping arguments, it's about getting to a point where arguments don't need to happen cos sensible people talk about stuff.
So yeah, there's some middle ground.
And where was I to support Enterprise? Working night shifts in an Emergency Department when one of the Ambulance drivers told me it was being cancelled, and generally leading a life that at that time didn't really include Star Trek, because I had just stopped being a teenager, and hadn't yet settled down in being a grown up.
I think his implication is that he likes the continuity, straitjacket or not.
I think that when you play in an existing universe as a creator, you play by the rules established, or you go play elsewhere, because piggybacking off success of franchise a whilst wanting it to be something else is disingenuous. You don't settle down with someone and spend your time trying to get them to totally change everything about themselves no?
I was really hoping for a third universe to start up, unrelated to Prime or Alternate universes, so that they could pick and choose what to use without worrying about established continuity. I always enjoy how adaptations of things like comic books or Sherlock Holmes books or the different Transformer cartoons will do their own spin on things. I'm not really that interested in this show though but even if I don't watch it I hope it's something that old fans enjoy and draws in new viewers.
Adaptations are a different kettle of fish. Most Holmes works in literature tend to keep to extending from the original canon (it's pretty much where we get the term from) even if they ignore other Holmes works doing the same thing. There are exceptions, I have the Elementary novel yet to read. I really like that show. That's a reboot or reimagining actually doing something different with its material. Sherlock...not so much. On screen adaptations, can never be the original, because they are precisely that, adaptations.
Trek is first and foremost a TV series. That's its original. You can stretch that to the films because cast and creators carried over, in the case of TNG, directly. Trek was doing the 'universe' thing before it was a thing.
Discovery is in totally the wrong period for my personal tastes, but, it's new Trek, it's in the continuity me and my little one like best, and I won't have to explain why there is a third Captain Kirk or Enterprise. While I think it's cool that a four year old has basic understanding of temporal theory and time loops, it still gives me a headache.
I don't know how Japanese anime fans do it, they reboot things before the thing has even got cold. There's like....4 Motokos. And in the western dub they all even sound the same.
Speaking as both, I think Anime fans also have a nuts brigade.
Sanity has very little purchase, particularly in modern anime fandom xD
And as Ghost In The Shell fan, they always seem to nip and tuck enough that they are in line....and of course, they are adaptations. Often quite faithful. SAC was the best though.
The problem with that is that if the writers share such views, then the series would have ended with 'Turnabout Intruder.'
An episode that highlights exactly why I'm fine with some 'continuity' being stomped to death with steel-toe boots.
They always wanted it to be Star Trek though, and rarely threw the baby out with the bath water. I fall asleep in Turnabout Intruder. It's interpretations aside, it's just a crap episode,
Or some folks don't define "Star Trek" by its timeline.
Of course. But the later shows do. And that's a lot of hours and years of work. Otherwise you can slap a Star Trek sticker on a lot of Space Opera, and it could be true. What differentiates Trek from generic Space Opera, part from its history?
What Makes Star Trek An Exceptional Space Opera: How much people (or a person) like or recognize it, compared to how much they like or recognize all the other Space Operas.
What Makes Star Trek: The Label. And a lack of lightsabers.
But seriously - a lot of TNG episodes really were just 'generic' (aka original) stories that were tweaked for the Trek label.
Baby:
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