What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Amasov, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Can I ask how this is different than the current efforts people do in fantasizing about different situations in the real world? In the fan world alone there is art, fan fiction, costuming and porn parody. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

    How an "enlightened" people would handle it is of course up for debate. Personally, I think that it is treated like video games, where these creations are limited by the capability of the computer. Hopefully, as they discover things with Moriarty, and The Doctor, etc. More limits would be placed on the capacity of the holograms for recreational use. One would hope they could be programed to be treated as NPCs in a video game, having no more autonomy than the character wandering around in Assassins' Creed.
     
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  2. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The idea of a hologram 'accidentally' developing sentience/sapience is daft.
    If a recreational AI subroutine in the ship's computer was prone to becoming sentient, then you would think that the Enterprise computer itself would have similar issues more often, since it itself is the whole computing "brain power" behind the thing.

    Kor
     
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  3. The Emissary

    The Emissary Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It's a tough question, but I think it's just a matter of degrees at this point. We are currently restricted by our current technological level. So if a person writes a fan fiction where two characters fall in love, there is no potential consent issues at play here. It's two imaginary people in your head that you allow others to view via books or fan fic forums, etc. But a hologram is an extra degree of different. Then a potentially sentient hologram makes it even more awkward.

    Or another analogy would be one of those "choose your own ending" books. If I did that, including maybe killing a villain or something, then the worst thing I did was turn a page and make a morally dubious choice in my head. But on the holodeck "choose your own ending", you're killing a being that was made to look as real as possible - including bleeding out or crying out in pain. A being, that according to Trek, could potentially reach self-awareness.

    But in a lot of other ways, you're right. It's not all that different (when it comes to the fantasizing part) and I'm seeing more and more folks discuss this in various fandoms. (Not just about Star Trek)

    Your video game example is a good one. Maybe in a century or so - some folks will find it gross or weird that we played video games reenacting wars while living in the same time as people who fought in some of those wars and told us how awful and traumatic they were.

    Within the Trek universe - would it be in bad taste if Tom and Harry or O'Brien and Bashir reenacted Wolf 359 for "fun"? If that is too "contemporary" for them - what about reenacting the destruction of Starbase 1 from DISCO 100+ years earlier or the Eugenics Wars centuries earlier? Would that be in bad taste? If yes, then why isn't it in bad taste to reenact the Battle of Britain or the Alamo? If no, are there no limits to this?

    True but aren't most of them already programmed to just be NPCs? Then after a lot of use and changes in the dynamic of their programming - they evolve (or have the potential to). IDK - I guess for me - the fact that there is even a potential for it would be really off putting. But I am looking at it from the perspective of a Trekkie. For all I know, the vast majority of Starfleet officers are oblivious to Vic Fontaine, Moriarty, and The Doctor...
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I guess it would depend on the culture and the purpose behind such a recreation. If it is to feel apart of that moment, and all the emotions that go with it, I would say why not? To look at it simply there is a level of personal responsibility expected of Starfleet officers in particular, such that in early TNG there were no restrictions put on the comm system.

    If it's in bad taste one would then have to ask who is it impacting? And again, how is that different from the multitude of video games out there?
    Which is why restrictions would be recommend. Perhaps it was mere ignorance, as portrayed in the episode, with how powerful the computer could be. So, you insert artificial limits in to the NPC programing and it's done. And, likely as not, those examples were probably exceptions and required a lot of study.
     
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  5. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Stealer of all the cookies in time and space Premium Member

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    Oh well there you go. But that's only because of Zora.
     
  6. tesral

    tesral Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    If you cannot tell the difference, is there one?
     
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  7. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Depends on whom you ask and how you define it.
     
  8. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Stealer of all the cookies in time and space Premium Member

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    Honestly if you couldn't tell the difference it could be sentience. There's no proper test for that even in the real world, is there? I mean a foolproof test.
     
  9. tesral

    tesral Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    In truth. The most famous, the Turing Test is unreliable. Some programs can beat some people's perceptions and some people cannot.

    My supposition is that if you cannot tell the difference between real sentience, however you define that, and a simulation of sentience, is it still a simulation? How do you draw that line?
     
  10. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    That is essentially the conclusion that Philippa louvoir came to when she made her judgment in The Measure of a Man.
     
  11. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was at least on the way to doing so in Emergence...then died.
     
  12. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The emergent life form in that episode was kind of an evolutionary step on the way to what we see with Zora in Season 4 of DSC.
     
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  13. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What would have been super daring would be if the Enterprise D had actually become a true permanently sentient lifefirm in "Emergence". And at some point, it beams everyone off (safely) and flies off into the starry void by itself.

    Then, they just have to introduce the Enterprise E a little early, or get another Galaxy class to sub for it.

    You can't tell me that wouldn't have been a mind-blowing sendoff.
     
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  14. WhisperingWinds

    WhisperingWinds Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I would have had the USS Enterprise D be refitted within TNG to include the three warp Nacelles and have the entire thing revamped in the last season. It would have been seen within the movies, but it would also have been destroyed in the same manner. I also think that it would have been interesting if Lore actually managed to convince Data to go along with him in the end.
     
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  15. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That would have worked ok , though perhaps the D could have become fully sentient in 'Emergence' and continue with the crew like that... and in Generations, the writers could have presented a more 'viable' threat and have the D sacrifice itself to protect the crew, or they defeat the baddies, but its found the the D can't take the crew home for whatever reason and decides (with Picard's agreement) to fly off (leaving the crew on Veridian III with shuttles, etc. and signaling SF to come get them).

    The D survives but is no longer in the picture, and we still see the crew being picked up by SF ships as we did in the movie, but as a closing shot, the D is seen emerging from behind a nearby moon (making sure the crew was indeed picked up) and with that final note, we see it warping away in a different direction.
     
  16. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Stealer of all the cookies in time and space Premium Member

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    You know that would have been awesome and Star Trek could have then had the D be the progenitor of a race of sentient starships
     
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  17. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Here's a controversial opinion... the "Before and After" timeline was arguably better than the one we got, because it actually had the characters evolve.
     
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  18. WhisperingWinds

    WhisperingWinds Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I actually much prefer the Enterprise E to the D. I wish they did an Enterprise F series instead of Picard or Discovery.
     
  19. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    A sentient A.I. space ship is bad in Star Trek, but a sentient A.I. space ship in Andromeda is good...
     
  20. Shawn Clement

    Shawn Clement Cadet Newbie

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    Don't jump on me if I hurt feelings.
    1. There are enough inconsistencies and inactive time to ditch the old 'canon' (as a set in stone rulebook)and create a new consistently reliable canon that also allows in depth development of races/factions.
    2. If a writer drops a race or planet with no detailed information; They officially allow a writer willing to build that aspec that right.
    3. Cardassians would have never joined the Federation, regardless of the reconstruction aid the UFP provided. Consider Cardassia as Russia and UFP as the U.S. There is too much distrust, animosity, and conflicting values among the two entities to peacefully submit to the other.