What are the implications of extra-galactic super AIs?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by RAMA, May 31, 2020.

  1. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    The answer is two-fold: One, the real-world answer is it is likely to happen within 30 years, progress is being made all the time, which will bring the moral and technical implications into modern discourse way before the fictional one. It's not just me saying it, it's the experts. Why is Elon Musk investing in it? To keep humanity "in" on the AI equation.

    The fictional answer is that of course, we've seen this explored many times, in this franchise itself: TNG, TOS. It allows us to discuss the moral and ethical implications in that context. No one realized in the 1960s it was coming so soon! The fact we have members here and others online saying the Golem is not real, that Picard is no longer Picard, etc is exactly what we should be talking about. I find that the bias we're seeing here by some is really telling.

    RAMA
     
  2. Gepard

    Gepard Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This entire paragraph shows that you completely missed my point.
     
  3. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, I got the point...I just disagree with it. The first paragraph is a direct answer. The experts take it seriously--enough to put their money into it--so should we.
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I find the bias more confusing than anything else. We have quantum copies of characters all the time, as well as living style androids that are indistinguishable from the real thing (TOS and TNG both had this).

    It's strange to me because it feels like an unwillingness to explore what the show wants to explore.
     
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  5. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    There's a fictional unwillingness, but I think there is a real-world element...often religious...that human spirit, intelligence, and "soul" is not transferable. I suspect this is a large component of what we are seeing.

    RAMA
     
  6. Gepard

    Gepard Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Dualism, the belief that the "soul" or essence of a person exists independent of the body, is a fundamentally religious position.

    Guess what belief underpins the idea that the "soul" is "transferrable."
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Good point. But, even so, I would say that Star Trek has already dipped in to that metaphysical world in this sense, especially with the katra, among others.

    If one argues that the brain is the seat of the unique human identity and the brain is a biological organ with chemical and electrical components then I would suggest that it could be copied.

    If nothing else it is something that is of interest for Trek to explore and has explored in the past.
     
  8. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    I don't believe in "souls" hence the quotation marks. I don't believe anything about the brain is eventually unquantifiable. Whatever "essence" there is from the biological brain in its many intricate connections should be preserved in a direct transfer in whole brain emulation.

    In a fictional sense, this is what we are told has happened in Picard. I see no reason to disbelieve it.

    RAMA
     
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  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This. Better put than I did.
     
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  10. Gepard

    Gepard Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The notion of dualism, that a mind can be moved out one body and into another different kind of body is still embedded in your reply even as you claim that's not what you're doing. Making a copy of something does not equal moving that thing; you've just made a second one. Swapping out the term "essence" for "soul" is a linguistic dodge.
     
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  11. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    No, its a wholly inadequate term for some things we don't have adequate terms for, which is part of the problem, but to suffice it to say, I meant very real, complex, mechanical transfer that has resultant properties from its interactions. Does not need metaphysical description though certainly some people feel free to use such terms.
     
  12. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    That's just special pleading.
     
  13. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure why, but you were on my ignore list, and I have no recollection of you whatsoever, and since you're wrong maybe that's why?

    RAMA
     
  14. Serveaux

    Serveaux Boomer American Premium Member

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    RAMA, like every human being who's ever lived, you and everyone you care about will pass away - just like Ray Kurtzweil's father. That is not a mean observation, it's a universal fact. You will not live on in a computer.
     
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  15. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Writer and occasional starship commander Premium Member

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    I don’t get the point of this thread anymore.

    YMMV
     
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  16. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    Announcing who you have on Ignore is considered a form of Trolling. Please don't do this again.
     
  17. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    :bolian: It is getting off track, but let's say that maybe these androids, golems, Synths will someday be part of this dis-embodied intelligence that clearly these sci-fi writers(like Chabon) think is possible.

    Ah, well that was inadvertent...I wasn't saying I put him on ignore, only that the board told me he was on ignore from years ago(I didn't realize the BBS was even supposed to tell me who I had on ignore), and since I'm a nice guy I'll take him off. :bolian:

    You're probably proceeding under a misapprehension that I think I'm going to be immortal, which I've stated before is not the case, I don't think I'll make it to that point. I don't think Kurzweil realistically thinks that either, but will future generations? Probably. Just not in a metaphysical way, but a concrete, quantified mathematical way. Data. To bring it back on topic, I think these higher AIs will be a very rich data indeed, with very biological-like diversity and nuances. So again, I'll re-iterate I hope to see that we've misinterpreted their aims in season 2!

    RAMA
     
  18. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    It IS strange, it is also strange because we accept a lot of less likely sci-fi stuff in Trek all the time. Warp Drive is many many many times less likely than brain emulation, same with transporters.

    We also think SciFi and Trek fans to be quite accepting, but as we have seen here, some can't get past the idea that people will not always be categorized as existing in a biological substrate.

    RAMA
     
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  19. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Soul, essence, it's all metaphysical nonsense.

    Star Trek is fiction just as much as Tolkien's elves and Lovecraft's Cthulhu. Fun entertainment. Uploading some wishful thinking called a soul from this 'biological substrate' is every bit as much a fanciful piece of religious woolly thinking as the divine assumption of the Blessed Mary.
     
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  20. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Unless and until a person has been created that does not exist "in a biological substrate," the idea is unproven and there is no idea to "get past." There is no substitute for practical demonstration, and, until such a time as one in which it has been accomplished, skepticism is both rational and warranted.
     
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