What are the implications of extra-galactic super AIs?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by RAMA, May 31, 2020.

  1. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 1999
    Location:
    USA
    My first thought as I watched these in the penultimate episode was that it was a game-changer. Other major science fiction universes, literary and otherwise have had such creations in their universal history, and Trek has often ignored anything extra-galactic...almost every major plot point and intelligence comes from the Milky Way!

    Some major examples of universal AI--often relegated to behind-the-scenes machinations--would be in Iain Bank's Culture series, Gregory Benford's Galactic Center series, David Brin's Uplift (in fact the AI in his universe are background players, responsible for past extinctions and in current history are on the periphery and mysterious like Picard's super synths...so to me they are most closely analogous).

    In the finale, Picard simply uses them as a threat, but will they appear again now that we know about them? They make the Borg look like child's play if their intentions are violent, but are they really what we think they are? Did we misconstrue their intentions? By claiming to save other AIs, does that actually mean the destruction of organics?

    I'm happy to see the expansion of such ideas into the Trek universe. At this point, it could go either way. I'd be happy to see these admittedly malevolent looking (to our eyes) AIs surprise us in some way.

    [​IMG]

    RAMA
     
  2. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Location:
    California
    They might show up on Disco S3, but I could imagine they'll never be mentioned again
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    They are not extra galactic.

    They are extra-universal, or extra-dimensional.

    I can only assume that they can only lock onto Picard's universe while there is a beacon flaring, becuase their universe/dimension is spinning and orbiting something, and we are spinning and orbiting something else, so they are never going to find their way back to Picard's universe unless someone sends up another flare.
     
  4. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    I'm pretty sure this AI we saw at the end of PIC S1 is the same type of AI that tried to capture Pike and Tyler in "Light and Shadows" (DSC). And if they've now appeared cross-series, then it's a fair chance to say they'll show up again.

    I think this AI will be a friend or enemy in the Star Trek Universe in general, instead of just one particular series.
     
  5. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Extra galactic, diminsional, spoons Ai's..
    Good reason for the galactic barrier!
     
    saddestmoon and Lord Garth like this.
  6. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored This is the Way Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA, USA
    Much like Species 8472, the fact that these AIs could just open a portal to any location in our dimension and wreak havoc at will yet have not chosen to do so as soon as as threat is perceived leaves open the possibility that they're more thoughtful and less bent on conquest and extermination than we give them credit for. They probably come on strong with the opening rhetoric and actions as an intimidation tactic, then after that they step back and assess whether we actually pose a threat to them or not.

    So they might not be the friendliest bots ever, and pacifying the situation may be difficult, but the fact that they haven't already come through in force leaves reason to hope that peaceful communication can be opened.
     
    WarpTenLizard, Sci, Timo and 3 others like this.
  7. dahj

    dahj Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2003
    Wasn't The Doomsday Machine also extra-galactic?
     
  8. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    @dodge yes.
    So only comes down like thor's hammer if they get a signal.. Hey.. Organics are F'n us up down here, bit of help?? otherwise the Ogdru Jahad will slumber till broken free of there.. crystal... prison.. by the.. right hand of..Anum.. .well... nevermind..
     
  9. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Location:
    On the destruct button until the last minute!
    An ancient alliance of artificial lifeforms from across the cosmos is a pretty interesting concept... so long as they aren't all murderous robo-squids.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  10. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Open the portal, send in a borg cube, boom problem solved
     
  11. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Sunny California
    I'm hoping the aim is for peace, and show even the scariest of alien robots can be searching for an inner truth that we're all part of this universe and we all have an bio-energenic connection within all beings.
     
    plynch and Lord Garth like this.
  12. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    This is what I'm hoping for as well. Given how easily Soji was able to call them off, I like to think they're only out to make sure that AI is kept safe.
     
    STEPhon IT and fireproof78 like this.
  13. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Wesley Crusher can show up and make peace with the AI and show it how to be one with the traveler and leave behind their issue with organics
     
  14. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 1999
    Location:
    USA
    I don't thnk they have a direct connection.

    It is curious they didn't respond to the appearance of "Control"! I guess they need to be called..AI phone home, or Control thought it could supplant these AIs and didn't think they were needed.

    RAMA
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Annoyed by inappropriate use of the word "Need"
    Reminded me of Species 8472.
     
  16. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 1999
    Location:
    USA
    Yup, speculated as such by Spock. It was basically a dumb drone though. Not on the same level as the Picard AI.

    Yes, you're right, I just listened to it again: "Beyond time and space". So very advanced AI indeed.

    I also noted they said "protection" of AI evolution, so I thought this left things open to question, but they also include: "extinction" in reference to organics. Still, even this could mean an expected end result of human evolution rather than active extermination.

    RAMA
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  17. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Location:
    Far North Chicago Suburbs
    IDK, mechanical Cthulhu can probably be nothing but violent.

    To be honest, I see a mechanized Cephalopoda that reminds me of that future Control probe in Light & Shadows.
     
    saddestmoon likes this.
  18. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2020
    What really annoys me about the Trek reapers and also control I suppose is it kinda makes the Zhat Vash right
     
    Makarov and Ar-Pharazon like this.
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Annoyed by inappropriate use of the word "Need"
    Yes and no. They didn't have the complete picture and were convinced that destruction was the only answer, either they destroyed the AI or the AI destroyed them.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Dunno about that. In TOS, all the really bad baddies were from outside the Milky Way: the Doomsday Machine, the Kelvans, the Flying Pancakes...

    What they had in common was an utterly un-humanlike physiology. One is almost tempted to think that each galaxy at this day and age is under the control of a single superspecies that only allows its own kind to flourish there, and the Milky Way has humanoid overlords (that is, they used to be humanoid and are still fond of that shape) while Andromeda is controlled by somebody who used to look more or less Kelvan (that is, with a hundred tentacles).

    Being extradimensional confuses the issue of being extragalactic. The Organians weren't of this world, but they did seem awfully jealous about Organia the planet. Are the machine intellects perhaps chauvinist about specific realspace locations, too?

    Well, as said, they voluntarily went away when the Advanced Synths stopped ringing the welcome chime.

    Looks like politeness or shyness, and I don't think it would be logical to associate shyness with the great power suggested and, to a degree, demonstrated.

    Being polite doesn't necessarily mean being benign, though. Perhaps they will politely wipe out all organic life, or discreetly force it to meld with machinery, or courteously usher it into ghettoes so that machine life gets room to expand.

    This specific instance is an odd one to interfere with worldly affairs. Why would the super-AI community care about the Advanced Synths more than they do about the other sorts of Milky Way AI in Star Trek? Why won't they intervene for their brethren when Kirk is killing them, or when Janeway is?

    Timo Saloniemi