For some reason I always tend to think that later seasons are better than earlier seasons. Maybe because the special effects (generally) get better, hairstyles and uniforms are upgraded and new gizmos and gadgets are introduced.
Were the first two seasons a waste?
- Thread starter IntrepidMan
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I really loved the whole thing. In the earlier seasons I just enjoy the Cardassian station and everyone settling into it, getting used to Bajorans etc.. it gives you the feel of the day to life there. But then I just love the station itself so watching B stories about voles makes me happy.
It's also interesting to watch all of the Bajoran politics and intrigue in the earlier seasons. I had forgotten about that.
NKemp3 what was false about what I wrote?
See even on "Move Along Home" there's what I think is a brilliant bit when Dax tells Sisko to leave. It went along the lines of "don't let emotions affect command level decisions". The two of them say the line at exactly the same time. I thought it really helped the Sisko/Jadzia/Curzon relationship.
The episode is of course meh but I thought it still had some nice character moments.
And If Wishes Were Horses? It's all about the baseball.
I'm not playing that game. I broke it down in my response what I felt was false about your post; why should I do so again? You weren't too far off but you came to some conclusions that are not exactly accurate IMO based upon reports regarding the show that I came across over the years.
I will point out (since I forgot to do so last time) that based upon the official Trek magazine that existed back during the 90s, TPTB knew after season one that the series needed a more threatening enemy. That's why there were several references to the Dominion throughout season two before they officially introduced them in the season finale of that season. The interview with Piller in the spring of 1993 pointed this out. So that was another element that was not created on the fly after the first two seasons as you seemed to suggest (pardon me if I'm misinterpreting the point you were trying to make). The Dominion was on the drawing board much earlier on.
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NKemp3 I wasn't playing a "game." I respectfully asked a question and expected a respectful answer. I evidently corresponded with the wrong person.
I will now consider the matter closed and blissfully enjoy my ignorance.
The other thing that people forget is that Season 1 is what gives Season 7 its power. The story of Kira and Bajorans is important precisely because the tables would dramatically turn once Cardassia joins the Dominion. Damar himself notes that Cardassia was conquered and occupied without ever firing a shot. Its because we see the pain that Bajor endured at the hands of the Cardassians, that the Cardassians' own comeuppance is more relevant. The great irony that Cardassia's future would depend on what it learns from Kira and the Bajorans is actually pretty powerful and is a noteworthy Trek message.
^ I agree
season 1 and 2 had several episodes that I felt were kind of lazy writing. These were mostly when they would threaten the worm hole in some way or the system would be threatened. This was in large part because the Defiant wasn't in the mix and you can only do so much on runabouts.
season 1 and 2 had several episodes that I felt were kind of lazy writing. These were mostly when they would threaten the worm hole in some way or the system would be threatened. This was in large part because the Defiant wasn't in the mix and you can only do so much on runabouts.
I admit you can see a lot of TNG in the first two seasons.
But you can see how it was different too. The dialog gets different. TNG always seemed careful with it's dialog, DS9 was breaking away from that.
Some of the episodes were deep— designed to get into your head. You just have to wade past the 'boring' hurdle in order to see them.
I used to ignore them in order to get straight to the excitng stuff, but now watching them is like seeing them fresh, for the first time.
But you can see how it was different too. The dialog gets different. TNG always seemed careful with it's dialog, DS9 was breaking away from that.
Some of the episodes were deep— designed to get into your head. You just have to wade past the 'boring' hurdle in order to see them.
I used to ignore them in order to get straight to the excitng stuff, but now watching them is like seeing them fresh, for the first time.
I still don't care that much for the first two seasons, compared to the rest of the series. However, I've come to appreciate them more. It's actually a nice contrast, in addition to setting the base for which the rest of the series rests. Also, the "full circle" point made by others here, mainly the significance of Bajor to the Cardassians in the final season, drives home the importance of the beginning.
Also, while it's easy to criticize some parts of a series, would it be preferable to remove it? I think not. Even the "mediocre" or "terrible" episodes have their places. There are always some redeeming values to each episode. Given how the franchise is locked down for the foreseeable future, those "lesser" episodes become a little more valuable.
Also, while it's easy to criticize some parts of a series, would it be preferable to remove it? I think not. Even the "mediocre" or "terrible" episodes have their places. There are always some redeeming values to each episode. Given how the franchise is locked down for the foreseeable future, those "lesser" episodes become a little more valuable.
+1 this.
I don't see a lot of TNG in early DS9. Early DS9 was much more focused on politics than exploration, plus you had the characters not necessarily being good friends with each other.
I don't think TNG enveloped everything, but I do think DS9 started off with some TNG themes. It was offset by the politics and to me, the edgier dialog and content.
In the early episodes, there were some alien and anomaly of the week type episodes.
Plus the reminders of the connection to TNG, like Q and Vash's guest appearance.
You can also see it in small things like hairstyles. At first, Kira's hairstyle was almost identical to Ensign Ro's. Then later they cut it shorter and gave Kira her own style.
It was as if DS9 was coming into it's own around season 3. DS9 was a little bolder, more political and piled on the action more.
Why should they have been a waste?
They're the last two seasons of Trek before they began the long road of dumbing down Trek to cater to the lowest common denominator, eventually resulting in things like cross-dressing Ferengi, BarbieOfNine, time-travelling Space Nazis, ...
They're the last two seasons of Trek before they began the long road of dumbing down Trek to cater to the lowest common denominator, eventually resulting in things like cross-dressing Ferengi, BarbieOfNine, time-travelling Space Nazis, ...
I love the first two seasons! Especially the second, which is probably my favorite of the whole series. So no, they most certainly are no waste. Some of the most memorable episodes are in these two seasons, like "Emissary", "Duet", the brilliant Circly Trilogy, "Necessary Evil", "Whispers", "The Maquis" ...
Not at all. If it weren't for Season Two, I would never have gotten into the show. "Whispers" got me hooked and I never looked back.
Season 2 is superior to seasons 1, and 7 certainly.
If you are insisting on skipping episodes, teh ones I would make sure not to skip are:
1: Emissary, Past Prologue, Captive Pursuit, The Nagus, Duet and In the Hands of the Prophets. The last two are great episodes of Trek.
2: The Homecoming, The Circle, The Siege, Necessary Evil, Armageddon Game, Whispers, Paradise, Blood Oath, The Maquis I & II, The Wire, Crossover, The Collaborator, and the Jem' Hadar.
Season two is actually a very, very strong season of Trek.
And we can blame the great Circle Trilogy for the move away from Bajoran politics. Its repeat ratings, were terrible. This really scared the studio, and why we had to what for season 6 to have anything past a two part episode. By that time the studio really didn't give anywhere near the level of oversight that they did in the early years. But my god the acting talent in those three episodes.... Some of the finest to ever appear in Trek.
If you are insisting on skipping episodes, teh ones I would make sure not to skip are:
1: Emissary, Past Prologue, Captive Pursuit, The Nagus, Duet and In the Hands of the Prophets. The last two are great episodes of Trek.
2: The Homecoming, The Circle, The Siege, Necessary Evil, Armageddon Game, Whispers, Paradise, Blood Oath, The Maquis I & II, The Wire, Crossover, The Collaborator, and the Jem' Hadar.
Season two is actually a very, very strong season of Trek.
And we can blame the great Circle Trilogy for the move away from Bajoran politics. Its repeat ratings, were terrible. This really scared the studio, and why we had to what for season 6 to have anything past a two part episode. By that time the studio really didn't give anywhere near the level of oversight that they did in the early years. But my god the acting talent in those three episodes.... Some of the finest to ever appear in Trek.
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