WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Dream
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That's a damn shame, and it's certainly ill-deserved.
I don't love the film myself, but I'm certainly going to give it a second look. It's worth the ticket price, at least, certainly far more than the Pirates franchise (which went from enjoyable to infuriating in the span of three films) or most other "pop" trash of recent years. As much as I trashed this film before it came out, that's saying something of Snyder and the rest of the crew (though I'd suspect that the latter had more to do with that.)
With all the hype, how can the film be unable to even match it's cost? I can't see the economy being the main culprit of this. As for the narrative problems, I've seen many more films do better with even less cohesion, so I can't believe that either.
I don't love the film myself, but I'm certainly going to give it a second look. It's worth the ticket price, at least, certainly far more than the Pirates franchise (which went from enjoyable to infuriating in the span of three films) or most other "pop" trash of recent years. As much as I trashed this film before it came out, that's saying something of Snyder and the rest of the crew (though I'd suspect that the latter had more to do with that.)
With all the hype, how can the film be unable to even match it's cost? I can't see the economy being the main culprit of this. As for the narrative problems, I've seen many more films do better with even less cohesion, so I can't believe that either.
That's overthinking it a tad. Moore makes the point that human beings aren't always and entirely assholes, which I suppose is no small point - but the few acts of consideration and kindness he portrays, particularly in the last part of the book, are a long way from any kind of argument that "humanity is worth saving."
I think you're right, Polaris. Moore is a little too pessimistic to mean humanity should be saved.
You have to bear in mind that at the time Moore wrote Watchmen humanity was in actuality in a situation not too far removed from the one portrayed in the comic - two superpowers locked in a cold war and always too close to the edge - and the similarities were deliberate. IRL we got ourselves there with no help at all from "superheroes" so if Moore's major point had been that superheroes were the problem it would be very, very weak stuff made weaker by that treatment.
Really? Because, after the detonations supposedly caused by Dr. Manhattan, leading the world to unite against him (and, likely, other costumed heroes), that idea never occurred to me. Not once. Nope.
^I think he's having a problem with how the film portrays them, not necessarily how they are perceived in-universe.
I think you're right, Polaris. Moore is a little too pessimistic to mean humanity should be saved.
You have to bear in mind that at the time Moore wrote Watchmen humanity was in actuality in a situation not too far removed from the one portrayed in the comic - two superpowers locked in a cold war and always too close to the edge - and the similarities were deliberate. IRL we got ourselves there with no help at all from "superheroes" so if Moore's major point had been that superheroes were the problem it would be very, very weak stuff made weaker by that treatment.
But then, the peaceful and rather anticlimactic resolution of the Cold War IRL gives the story a very different reading. The U.S. of the Watchmen universe viewed Dr. Manhattan as a godsend, when, in fact, his presence only exacerbated Cold War tensions. (But then, there's still no proof that the U.S. & the USSR would have gone to war had Ozymandias not engineered Dr. Manhattan's departure from Earth in the first place.)
Well of course Moore didn't know that things would turn out so well for us when he wrote the novel. That said, what he seemed to be talking about was not whether "superheroes are the problem" but that too much power concentrated in too few hands deforms the world - and he's talking about that in terms of superpower nations, not individuals with superpowers. There's only one "superhero" in the book, and what he stands in for is simply an ultimate military weapon possessed by only one faction in the stand-off.
^ Fuck, if Nick Fury tries to recruit Nite Owl, I've HAD it!
it would seem that he is in every other comic book movie in the next few years.
Ouch. Care to give us the low down?
Get back to me in a month. Seriously. It's not exactly FanFic (unless I do one based on ST), so I'll post an outline in SF&F or Misc.
Ugh, where do I begin?
Let me start with what I liked: It looks pretty.
Uhm.
Yeah, it looks pretty.
Stuff that didn't work for me.
The story, pretty much from beginning to end.
I couldn't fathom why the characters were so invested in the Comedian's death when he was a rapist asshole and completely unsympathetic.
I couldn't figure out why the Comedian would cry about Ozymandias's plan, and why he would need to be killed over it.
None of that added up.
I couldn't understand why this world seems so miserable if the Vietnam War has been won? Or why Superheroes would have been banned if they just won that same war for everyone. There's just no logic there.
Learning about the characters as the story unfolded was okay, I wasn't completely sold on it, but it made it hard to really support any of them, when they spent so much of the film wandering around feeling miserable for themselves. By an hour in I really didn't care about any of them one way or the other.
The visual homages to things like Dr. Strangelove were fine but they didn't really go anywhere, or tie up with the characters. They could have cut many of those scenes and the film wouldn't have been hurt.
The overall message is very 1980s. An outside threat, nuclear war, unites Earth. 9-11 proved that's not true just between Democrats and Republicans.
The problem is, the cold war was so long ago, most people don't remember the fear of war that existed.
Overall it was very disjointed, and not in a clever way that made me go "Ohhhh," at the end, but rather "Eh."
I don't know. Maybe fans of the comic see something I don't. But as a pure spectator with no dog in the fight, it was not a good film.
Chick in the latex was hot though.
Nope. There is no after credits scene in this movie.
By the way you really shouldn't be reading this topic until after you have seen the movie if you want to avoid spoilers.
Ugh, where do I begin?
Let me start with what I liked: It looks pretty.
Uhm.
Yeah, it looks pretty.
Stuff that didn't work for me.
The story, pretty much from beginning to end.
I couldn't fathom why the characters were so invested in the Comedian's death when he was a rapist asshole and completely unsympathetic.
I couldn't figure out why the Comedian would cry about Ozymandias's plan, and why he would need to be killed over it.
None of that added up.
I couldn't understand why this world seems so miserable if the Vietnam War has been won? Or why Superheroes would have been banned if they just won that same war for everyone. There's just no logic there.
Learning about the characters as the story unfolded was okay, I wasn't completely sold on it, but it made it hard to really support any of them, when they spent so much of the film wandering around feeling miserable for themselves. By an hour in I really didn't care about any of them one way or the other.
The visual homages to things like Dr. Strangelove were fine but they didn't really go anywhere, or tie up with the characters. They could have cut many of those scenes and the film wouldn't have been hurt.
The overall message is very 1980s. An outside threat, nuclear war, unites Earth. 9-11 proved that's not true just between Democrats and Republicans.
The problem is, the cold war was so long ago, most people don't remember the fear of war that existed.
Overall it was very disjointed, and not in a clever way that made me go "Ohhhh," at the end, but rather "Eh."
I don't know. Maybe fans of the comic see something I don't. But as a pure spectator with no dog in the fight, it was not a good film.
Chick in the latex was hot though.
I guess I underestimated how confusing the film would be to bystanders. I know I would have graded it lower had I not read the original.
I would still recommend checking out the comic, though. It's far more satisfying, regardless of what you thought of the movie.
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