WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Another thing, which is probably more important, is the fact that Synder decided to use grey in the mask, thus missing the point.

Which would really be necessary in order to make it look like an on-stage effect rather than CG - in fact, clearly demarcated black-and-white would probably read as cel animation no matter what they did with "lighting" it.

Or maybe Rorschach describing the black and white as "not mixing, no grey" is what Moore really meant by the novel being unfilmable.

Rorschach blots are of varying density on the cardboard, of course. Lotta grey.

http://www.psychblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/rorschach_blot_06.jpg

 

[Destructor]

The material is actually two-sheets of latex with black and white liquid smashed between the layers. The "rorschach effect" is created because the liquids are heat and pressure sensitive, and the human face is inherently symmetrical. The only problem with this is that it would be nearly impossible to breath or see, unless he managed to poke tiny holes with a heated pin, which he was able to do given that he turned a dress into a mask, which requires sewing.

However, the fabric they used was a lycra-blend, which actually makes the mask impossible. I can understand why they may have chosen lycra as the base instead of latex for filming purposes, but it kind of defeats the purpose.

Another thing, which is probably more important, is the fact that Synder decided to use grey in the mask, thus missing the point.

Wow, I thought people getting mad about the ending were being nit-picky, complaining about the material used in their costumes takes it to a whole new level.

 

[USS Mariner]

Another thing, which is probably more important, is the fact that Synder decided to use grey in the mask, thus missing the point.

Which would really be necessary in order to make it look like an on-stage effect rather than CG - in fact, clearly demarcated black-and-white would probably read as cel animation no matter what they did with "lighting" it.

What they ended up doing is making it look as if the ink was sucked into the fabric, which is how they accomplished the "3D" effect they aimed for. It had nothing to do with the lighting.

Besides, we see that kind of thing happening in real life with lava lamps and oil and water. No light required.

 

[USS Mariner]

The material is actually two-sheets of latex with black and white liquid smashed between the layers. The "rorschach effect" is created because the liquids are heat and pressure sensitive, and the human face is inherently symmetrical. The only problem with this is that it would be nearly impossible to breath or see, unless he managed to poke tiny holes with a heated pin, which he was able to do given that he turned a dress into a mask, which requires sewing.

However, the fabric they used was a lycra-blend, which actually makes the mask impossible. I can understand why they may have chosen lycra as the base instead of latex for filming purposes, but it kind of defeats the purpose.

Another thing, which is probably more important, is the fact that Synder decided to use grey in the mask, thus missing the point.

Wow, I thought people getting mad about the ending were being nit-picky, complaining about the material used in their costumes takes it to a whole new level.

Take Goode's advice and grow a dick so you can blow yourself.

 

[Maurice]

...The "rorschach effect" is created because the liquids are heat and pressure sensitive, and the human face is inherently symmetrical...

Roughly. But most people's faces are somewhat asymmetrical (one eye is slightly lower than the other, one side is heavier, etc.), so the idea that this fictional material could shift AND remain symmetrical based on the underlying face is silly. Cock your eyebrow and what happens?

 

[USS Mariner]

Also, if that were the case, the pattern would almost always have a "default," changing only when you have an expression.

It ain't exact, but it's good enough for government work.

 

[Sparky]

Oh, of course not. Instead, when a fictional character like Sally Jupiter is beaten to a pulp, you enjoy it--by your own admission.

Exactly. Because it was so over the top it was funny...It also was not real. Plenty of characters were beaten up, maimed, killed and otherwise brutalized. Plenty of those scenes were laughed at by more than a few people as well. You seem to have a problem distinguishing between what is real and what is not.

Is that a professional diagnosis?

You're obviously unable to articulate why you were so amused by the violence in Watchmen. I think your laughter in the theater (with friends, probably) is a sign of your immaturity, and not an indication that director Zack Snyder failed in any way.

Ok, we seem to be coming at this from different angles. The thing you have to understand is that i have a disconnect between real life and make believe. I do not confuse the two. What i found funny in the movie was funny in the context of the movie but would not be funny in a real situation. It was way over the top and i found it amusing because it stood out from the rest of the movie and it was an attempt to shock the audience. I do not and would not in any way shape or form find that kind of behavior funny or amusing in a real life situation. If you cannot understand that position from your point of view then that's fine by me. Your assumption about my friends and myself is as wrong as my assumption about you. I do apologize about the comment about being able to tell real life from fiction. It was inappropriate.

 

[Jim Steele]

Didn't you pick up from the film the fact that Rorschach and Nite Owl were a team?

Not in the slightest--I got the impression that their joint reaction to Veidt was an alliance of convenience, not the resumption of a continued partnership that wasn't demonstrated in the flashbacks.

I think you've missed a few lines of dialogue somewhere along the line.

If you enjoyed the film, I would definitely recommend reading the source material. It's not the case that you need to know one to enjoy the other, but I think the film is made all the richer if you know the graphic novel. The film contains allusions to things that they're unable to explore to the extent that the comic does. The Minutemen montage at the start, for example, is full of shots like that.

 

[ATimson]

I think you've missed a few lines of dialogue somewhere along the line.

I think I copped to that already. Once people pointed out where it was mentioned, I remembered what they were talking about; obviously, the pictures of Nite Owl and the Comedian were worth far more than a couple dozen words about Rorschach and Nite Owl.

 

[Jim Steele]

^

I didn't read any other replies, sincerest apple-ogies.

 

[Harry Palmer]

I'll be generous and give it a C+. The historical impersonations really were as problematic as reviewers made them out to be, especially Nixon. Anthony Hopkins couldn't have made the character believable in that make-up, and the actor portraying Nixon certainly wasn't Anthony Hopkins. For a movie that cost as much as this, this version of Nixon should never had made it on screen.

Yeah you right. Watching the Nixon scenes was so comical I was disappointed we didn't get a Billy West 'harooo' or a headless body of Agnew. Although the lady who did Elanor Clift did a great job not so with the guy who did Pat Buchanan or McLaughlin.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

What they ended up doing is making it look as if the ink was sucked into the fabric, which is how they accomplished the "3D" effect they aimed for. It had nothing to do with the lighting.

"Lighting" was in quotes for a reason. Rorschach's mask has to appear to interact with the environment - light and shadow - despite the fact that it's a cartoon added into the image later. In that regard, it really helps not to design something that is a cartoon.

The vague edges successfully convey an organic, real effect of some kind, such as a response of the material to heat.

That the damned mask is a mood ring is as good an explanation as the "shifting expression" idea.

Besides, we see that kind of thing happening in real life with lava lamps and oil and water. No light required.

Funny, lava lamps were something I thought of while rereading the panel where Kovacs explains the fabric. Yeah, a "lava lamp" effect would have looked like ass - I mean, a cartoon. "Texture" is different in a comic and in live action; the black-and-white effect would be no more convincing than painting Crudup blue would have been. For Manhattan, Snyder chose a far more mysterious and sophisticated surface that works, and with Rorschach he chose to go for something that looks like a guy wearing a mask that somehow shifts patterns. Excellent call.

I also got a chuckle, on re-reading, at how Kovacs admires the fact that the black and white exist without shades of grey as "beautiful." That's the symbolism of the thing as he sees it - he's as much a prisoner of the "Rorschach effect" as anyone else, since the truth about the eponymous blots - and the actual point that Moore was making with the name and the character - is that individuals see whatever they see there, and they are always "right."

 

[Neroon]

The material is actually two-sheets of latex with black and white liquid smashed between the layers. The "rorschach effect" is created because the liquids are heat and pressure sensitive, and the human face is inherently symmetrical. The only problem with this is that it would be nearly impossible to breath or see, unless he managed to poke tiny holes with a heated pin, which he was able to do given that he turned a dress into a mask, which requires sewing.

However, the fabric they used was a lycra-blend, which actually makes the mask impossible. I can understand why they may have chosen lycra as the base instead of latex for filming purposes, but it kind of defeats the purpose.

Another thing, which is probably more important, is the fact that Synder decided to use grey in the mask, thus missing the point.

Wow, I thought people getting mad about the ending were being nit-picky, complaining about the material used in their costumes takes it to a whole new level.

Take Goode's advice and grow a dick so you can blow yourself.

Text book case of flaming. Any discussion about this needs to be handled via PM.

 

[Capt. Vulcan]

Also, if that were the case, the pattern would almost always have a "default," changing only when you have an expression.

It ain't exact, but it's good enough for government work.

I can't see that working for the movie or in the spirit of the book. Having one default pattern that only morphs when he makes a face wouldn't be nearly as interesting as the one we got. Actually I think it would look kind of goofy to have latex with white/black liquid in between.

 

[Harry Palmer]

Also, if that were the case, the pattern would almost always have a "default," changing only when you have an expression.

It ain't exact, but it's good enough for government work.

I can't see that working for the movie or in the spirit of the book. Having one default pattern that only morphs when he makes a face wouldn't be nearly as interesting as the one we got. Actually I think it would look kind of goofy to have latex with white/black liquid in between.

The liquid material is temperature srensitive. So the 'expression' would be affected by each inhalation or exhalation of the wearer. So the mask wouldn't have a 'defualt'.

 

[ITL]

The comic and the movie have a floaty blue godman who can discombobulate matter with ease, teleport himself and others to places known and unknown, and clone himself for Ultimate Sexual Naughtiness.

And in that context, the exact details of how a blobby mask works matters not a jot to me. It's great in the comic and it's great in the movie. Yeah.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The comic and the movie have a floaty blue godman who can discombobulate matter with ease, teleport himself and others to places known and unknown, and clone himself for Ultimate Sexual Naughtiness.

And in that context, the exact details of how a blobby mask works matters not a jot to me. It's great in the comic and it's great in the movie. Yeah.

Exactly.

You know, Doc doesn't really need a girlfriend. He could clone himself, have the clone change sex...and then they could ignore each other while they both worked on his science project. Everybody's happy.

 

[Praetor]

Eesh. That's kinda icky. I can't help but wonder if he would even bother to change sex.

I tend to think that he was mostly in it for Laurie by then anyway.

 

[ITL]

With all the transcending going on, Doc should make sure he doesn't go too far and transcend himself by accident when he's not looking. Could be painful and embarrassing.

 

[Praetor]

With all the transcending going on, Doc should make sure he doesn't go too far and transcend himself by accident when he's not looking. Could be painful and embarrassing.

I imagine we can all agree that while he clearly does not need to breathe, and probably eat or sleep or complete most other biological functions, Doc must also be impervious to all temperature extremes.

Evidence?

No shrinkage. Even on the Moon and Mars.

In fact he seemed rather... warm. All the time.