WATCHMEN - Movie Discussion and Grading (SPOILERS)

[Ethros]

Yeah I love little Walter

I know it *shouldn't* happen, and I should be crucified for suggesting it, but watching the film part of me kinda wants to see a prequel set in 70s just seeing the Watchmen in action. Only because we never really see how they operated as a team (ala say the X-Men) with them all working together etc, and we don't see much of Ozzy in action or his backstory

 

[Bishbot]

Yeah I love little Walter

I know it *shouldn't* happen, and I should be crucified for suggesting it, but watching the film part of me kinda wants to see a prequel set in 70s just seeing the Watchmen in action. Only because we never really see how they operated as a team (ala say the X-Men) with them all working together etc, and we don't see much of Ozzy in action or his backstory

They didn't operate as a team - only Rorshach and Nite Owl managed that. The first meeting of The Crimebusters, or, in the film, The Watchmen, was a dismal failure, mostly due to the comedian, and the idea died a death. I didn't feel the film made it as clear as it could have.

 

[Praetor]

Lots of little nuances like that were lost in the film, IMHO. In some cases it didn't matter, but in others it left some questions. I've found myself having to explain little things like that to those who haven't read the book.

Personally, details like that Ozymandias organized what in the book was the Crimebusters and that it was retitled Watchmen didn't bother me as much as I thought they would because it served the truncated version of the story that they told.

That's not a complaint, just an observation.

 

[ATimson]

They didn't operate as a team - only Rorshach and Nite Owl managed that.

Don't you mean Nite Owl and the Comedian?

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

They didn't operate as a team - only Rorshach and Nite Owl managed that.

Don't you mean Nite Owl and the Comedian?

No. Nite Owl and Rorschach were partners for years. Nite Owl and The Comedian only worked together that once when they were trying to stop the riot.

 

[CommodoreKong]

They didn't operate as a team - only Rorshach and Nite Owl managed that.

Don't you mean Nite Owl and the Comedian?

While Night Owl and the Comedian did work together during the police strike, Bishbot is correct. Night Owl and Rorshach were partners for sometime and worked together to take down some gangs. They really don't go into that much though.

Actually that's how Rorshach got his grappling gun, Night Owl gave it to him when he retired.

 

[Jim Steele]

They didn't operate as a team - only Rorshach and Nite Owl managed that.

Don't you mean Nite Owl and the Comedian?

Didn't you pick up from the film the fact that Rorschach and Nite Owl were a team?

 

[ATimson]

Didn't you pick up from the film the fact that Rorschach and Nite Owl were a team?

Not in the slightest--I got the impression that their joint reaction to Veidt was an alliance of convenience, not the resumption of a continued partnership that wasn't demonstrated in the flashbacks.

 

[Praetor]

I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated in the movie, like in the book. They were talking about how they used to be partners in the cave -er, basement.

 

[ATimson]

I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated in the movie, like in the book. They were talking about how they used to be partners in the cave -er, basement.

Oops?

 

[Captain Craig]

Didn't you pick up from the film the fact that Rorschach and Nite Owl were a team?

Not in the slightest--I got the impression that their joint reaction to Veidt was an alliance of convenience, not the resumption of a continued partnership that wasn't demonstrated in the flashbacks.

The whole scene with him breaking into Dan's place and visiting the armory was to establish they had a past.

Dan - They were good times weren't they, what happened?
R - You quit
Dan - There is a maintence hatch just past the second tunnel that'll let you out.
R - Yeah, I remember.

How do you not infer from that, if nothing else, that those two spent a lot of time together?

Flashback sequence of Ozzy trying to establish the Crimebusters has Dan saying, "Rorshach and I have really been making progress on xxx(I forget what)".
Again, how do you not catch that and get that those two have a working past?

 

[DarthPipes]

Also, Rorshach and Night Owl took down Big Figure. That's pointed out by the little midget himself at the prison.

 

[Praetor]

I think 'oops' sums it up nicely. There was a lot in the movie to take in so it's understandable little things like that could be missed.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I know it *shouldn't* happen, and I should be crucified for suggesting it, but watching the film part of me kinda wants to see a prequel set in 70s just seeing the Watchmen in action. Only because we never really see how they operated as a team (ala say the X-Men) with them all working together etc, and we don't see much of Ozzy in action or his backstory

I don't know about a movie but I think that a series of prequel comic books focusing on the various heroes in their prime could be fun. (Well, a Comedian comic book might be a little grim, but otherwise...) It would seem especially fitting since the original graphic novel was meant as a deconstruction of the superhero comic book medium. They could even do vintage golden age homages with retro stories featuring the original Minutemen-- Hooded Justice, Nite Owl I, Silk Spectre I, Captain Metropolis, Dollar Bill, etc. (I think it would be really interesting seeing individual issues of Dollar Bill that are "sponsored" by the bank that hired him or Silk Spectre issues that feature little crime fighting and are really just pitching her modeling career. Silly stuff akin to the old Jimmy Olsen & Lois Lane series.)

 

[USS Mariner]

It was a specially made dress for Kitty Genovese, the girl in NYC who was raped and murdered before dozens of witnesses who never called the cops, which inspired Kovacs to become Rorshach in the first place. It's some kind of special fluid suspended between two sheets of a plastic material.

The material is actually two-sheets of latex with black and white liquid smashed between the layers. The "rorschach effect" is created because the liquids are heat and pressure sensitive, and the human face is inherently symmetrical. The only problem with this is that it would be nearly impossible to breath or see, unless he managed to poke tiny holes with a heated pin, which he was able to do given that he turned a dress into a mask, which requires sewing.

However, the fabric they used was a lycra-blend, which actually makes the mask impossible. I can understand why they may have chosen lycra as the base instead of latex for filming purposes, but it kind of defeats the purpose.

Another thing, which is probably more important, is the fact that Synder decided to use grey in the mask, thus missing the point.

 

[Harry Palmer]

They didn't operate as a team - only Rorshach and Nite Owl managed that.

Don't you mean Nite Owl and the Comedian?

No. Nite Owl and Rorschach were partners for years.

Hmmmm?

I know it *shouldn't* happen, and I should be crucified for suggesting it, but watching the film part of me kinda wants to see a prequel set in 70s just seeing the Watchmen in action.

 

[Gojirob]

I know it *shouldn't* happen, and I should be crucified for suggesting it, but watching the film part of me kinda wants to see a prequel set in 70s just seeing the Watchmen in action. Only because we never really see how they operated as a team (ala say the X-Men) with them all working together etc, and we don't see much of Ozzy in action or his backstory

I don't know about a movie but I think that a series of prequel comic books focusing on the various heroes in their prime could be fun. (Well, a Comedian comic book might be a little grim, but otherwise...) It would seem especially fitting since the original graphic novel was meant as a deconstruction of the superhero comic book medium. They could even do vintage golden age homages with retro stories featuring the original Minutemen-- Hooded Justice, Nite Owl I, Silk Spectre I, Captain Metropolis, Dollar Bill, etc. (I think it would be really interesting seeing individual issues of Dollar Bill that are "sponsored" by the bank that hired him or Silk Spectre issues that feature little crime fighting and are really just pitching her modeling career. Silly stuff akin to the old Jimmy Olsen & Lois Lane series.)

Alan Moore once spoke of a Minutemen prequel, but I think disputes with DC mean its never to be. Dan and Laurie's movie fight actually raises an issue for me. Part of Alan Moore's theme was of course, 'what sort of person plays dress-up so they can maybe get killed or worse in a dark alley?'

But in order to survive going after even the lowest caliber of potentially violent crooks and criminals, they must have had something going for them in terms of fighting skill. Those that lived were presented as basically whole physically--no missing fingers or eyeballs, which even pursuing pickpockets can get you. I almost feel like Moore undercut his argument about how messed up their lives were by making them have survived five or more years in a very violent setup. The Matrix effect aside, they must have had some mad skills just to be only messed up in the head.

Also, were they ever able to work as a team, formal in the Minutemen and informal for their successors? Was Silhouette able to say 'Eddie, blast that position' and he says 'you got it', rather than some venomous exchange? Was Mothman at least good in the field, while being Don Knotts off it? These people are messed-up deconstructions of hero-types, but what did they have going for them that even made them think they could survive fighting crime?

 

[DarthPipes]

I read that ideas were pitched to Moore about doing Rorshach's Journal and The Comedian's Vietnam Diary but he turned them down.

 

[suarezguy]

Nite Owl and The Comedian only worked together that once when they were trying to stop the riot.

The film gave the impression that they had been partners and that Dreiburg was really naive in still being surprised by the Comedian's brutality.

In the comic, the Comedian has a "lighter" personality (less conflicted), ridiculing conspiracy theorists as just potheads, his "I was in Dallas" comment and defending his attempted rape as "But just once."

BTW, the R rating wasn't that prominent in the main poster:
http://www.impawards.com/2009/watchmen_ver16.html

 

[Praetor]

I think stripping down the Comedian's assholeishness made the Laurie revelation more obvious.