Chakotay was a wasted character in a lot of ways. Making him a generic "Indian" without giving him any specific tribe wound up being more insulting than if they actually picked a tribe and got a few details wrong or something. IMO, they should've have made Chakotay Navajo - they are a prominent tribe with a rich culture. If they wanted to do an episode exploring Chakotay's roots, he could have discovered that one of his ancestors was a Navajo code-talker, one of the unsung heroes of WWII. Instead we get this alien-worshipping crap. Ugh.
Chakotay did not have a specific tribe because they initially wanted to write a kind of nontheistic spirituality that borrowed from many traditions. This is showed by the little electronic gizmo that induced "visions." Electronically induced visions simply are not any traditional religion in any sense. Given that Chakotay was supposed to be a character to explore a Christian Godlessness, borrowing a mishmash of American Indian artifacts while avoiding anything too specific no doubt seemed less controversial. It is also more sensible as it is certain that whatever American Indians survive in the twenty fourth century, they will not be like the ones today. I'm sure that the suits forced the Voyager producers to drop Chakotay's peyote-tron. In SF terms there was no longer a function for the Chakotay character. Efforts to build on the original intent in having a spiritual but not Christian character without the suspect electronics relied on misunderstood and stereotyped tropes from movies about Indian religion. Making Chakotay's tribe part alien was supposed to be cool, not make them inhuman. The fact is that you can't just arbitrarily deem this sort of thing cool. (This is one reason why dragging in SF elements sometimes detracts from a story.) Whether you'd call Tattoo racist depends on what you'd call a Klansman or a Nazi I suppose. Certainly it's a crap episode.
Beltran "wanted" Chakotay to be a native south American, like he was, so we're not talking about "the plains". You do recall that there was an entire planet of space Indians who didn't see a white man till the 23rd century? (Relocated to avoid a natural disaster by "kindly" aliens. probably drunk aliens at that.) Of course that does mean that they are really really really different than the Indians today. It means that they are more pure/less contaminated, from a living in a bubble "prime directive" sort of view point. Until Kirk arrived and slept with half the female population of child bearing age during that month he had amnesia and wore feathers. Besides there could be dozens more planets of Space Indians that the 24th century Federation has yet to bump into... Of course you have to wonder if any of these Space Indian worlds have invented superior technology or they continue to languish in stone age ways? Imagine if one of the groups of Space Indians came back to earth in a flotilla of powerful starships to see where they came from and found out about how whitey annihilated the red man and stole every lick of land off them. Imagine a cleaving wave of disrupter energy so large and powerful, it's only purpose is to scalp a planet.
Just as racist as "The Parkers" & "The PJ's", two shows starring and written by African-Americans and labeled racist by the press and the public. However, my bad. The episode that was banned wasn't "Up The Long Ladder", it was "High Ground".
they said that Irish terrorism led to reunification... Which just struck me as a typical American reaction (no offence) - America can't comprehend the Anglo-Irish relationship because after you slaughtered the Native Americans, they didn't start car-bombing you, never tried to assassinate your leaders, never fired mortars at the White House and frankly as a nation, you're far too young to grasp the complexities. Basically, Britain did some very terrible things to Irish Citizens, and Irish Citizens did some terrible things to other Irish Citizens and British Citizens and there is no way in hell that reunification will ever result from the terrorism. Like the women got the vote in England in spite of the suffragette movement (read history), Ireland will reunify in spite of the IRA and Star Trek claiming any different just shows how America fails to understand the situation. /Rant Over
As an American, I'm not offended by what you say at all because rings of truth. I appreciate your open honesty.
Without the IRA the current compromise for Northern Ireland from about 10 years ago would not have been achieved. I do not condone the systemic violence that the Brits have exerted over the Irish and I neither condone IRA counterviolence. It would have definitely been preferable (although perhaps not feasible, perhaps counterterror was the only option) if the Irish had created a non-violent resistance movement à la Ghandi, '89 Eastern Bloc revolutions or Arab Spring. Whether one sides with the Brits or the Irish or none concerning the Irish question, I always appreciate it when Trek dares to be controversial.
Correct, without the IRA, the current compromise for Northern Ireland would not have been achieved. Because it wouldn't have been necessary. This wasn't a case of Trek being controversial. This was a case of Trek saying something stupid! Imagine if there were a minority of Alaskans who wanted to be part of Canada. And they tried to assassinate your presidents and they set bombs in Alaska and in Washington DC and other major cities. Then imagine if Trek had said that those terrorists were right to do what they were doing, because it's the only way?
Your comparison is wrong, what if Canada took a part from Alaska and the Alaskans who are living in this part are fed up with being treated badly would be more appropriate. Without any pressure from the side of the Irish nothing would have been achieved. Same is true in case of the Israel-Palestine conflict, the dominant power can silently exert systemic violence whereas the weaker player has to resort to subjective violence, i.e. violence in the conventional sense. Doesn't mean I am typical lefty who always sides with the weaker side (I actually argued with friends during the last Lebanon War that it is totally justified, that Israel has every right to bomb the sh*t out of Hesbollah!) but I am not a blind moron who does not see systemic violence just because it makes fewer headlines than subjective violence.
My comparison is wrong because Alaska didn't choose to remain part of the United States while Canada seceded. "Without any pressure form the side of the irish, nothing would have been achieved" I'm going to assume that you're including the Irish Home Rule party in this, I'm going to assume that you're talking about all the political pressures, the constiutional crisis of 1910 which led to the Parliament Act of 1911 and the divide between the House of Lords and Commons and the massive problem Home Rule caused. I'm going to assume you know all about how the First World War scuppered the Home Rule Act. I'm going to assume that you know that the UK Parliament had voted to allow Irish Home Rule, then we went to war in Europe and by the time the war ended, Sinn Fein had risen, we'd had the Irish Mutiny and everything had gone to hell. I'm going to assume you know all about the debates between Gladstone and Disraeli, about the strife in the 19th Century generally and about the insurrection attempts throughout the 19th Century. Oh, and I'm going to assume you know the difference between suffragists and suffragettes, that the reason women didn't get the vote in Britain until 1918 wasn't because of male chauvenism - a majority of Parliament were prepared to concede the vote more than a decade before. What happened? The peaceful suffragists became overshadowed by the violent suffragettes and the Parliament refused to make it look like we were acceeding to the wishes of terrorists. This at the same time they were contemplating Home Rule for the Irish. The "Irish Question" was that, the political maneuverings and machinations of the 19th Century, and like I said before - no offence to America - but you are far too young a nation to be able to grasp the complexities of a conflict which has been going on for centuries. And America can't understand the Irish Question, because your political process favours inaction. America would never see the same kind of political dogfights that we see almost every day. I've watched American C-Span and then I've watched BBC Parliament. There is no comparison. There is a very good reason why David Cameron stands two sword lengths away from Ed Milliband! If you feel like it, look up Lord Hesseltine and read about what he decided to do with the ceremonial mace during the last Conservative government!
I am a European and find your argument that Americans can not understand the British-Irish conflict at all to be utterly arrogant. You mention the subjective violence exerted by women respectively Irishmen and ignore the systemic violence exerted by the patriarchy respectively the United Kingdom. As I already said, I am not a friend of either form of violence but in the case of doubt I side with what you label terror, in the case of doubt you gotta cut off the king's head / the man's dick / the empire's arms. OK, now you can put me into the category of "stupid German infected by French thought".
The guy who said this on Star Trek WAS a terrorist, who thought he was accurately justifying his own actions of murder and sacrifice. How come Wales and Scotland didn't have a 10th the trouble that Ireland did? George Washington was a Terrorist. He just woke up one morning and said "Fuck my king." Then wandered about the country side with a militia murdering any police or army who got in his way until he got ballsy enough to hold hostage towns and cities. By that justification, anyone in America today can wake up this morning to say "Fuck Obama" . Then wander about the country side with a militia murdering police and army until congress has to run away to set up a government in exile inside Camp X-Ray Cuba. After world war III, when an eighth of the population was dead, and America probably misplaced it's government and ability to institute Law... Have you ever wondered why the Indians didn't try to take the country back? maybe there wasn't enough of them, but that just means executions rather than prisoners or slaves surely?
And your point is precisely what, that the British colonies should have remained British? I am not idolizing the American Revolution as it did not create democracy out of nowhere like the French Revolution but worked with the British democratic framework. Yet as a mere colony it could not have become the great country which it is now. As a superpower it is also a controversial country but your constitution is inspiring people worldwide. Gee, it even inspired one of your enemies, Ho Chi Min.
Of course it's arrogant, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. And if you're European, then surely you must agree that America as a nation is young and inexperienced with the intricacies of history lasting longer than a few hundred years. And siding with the terrorists does not put you in the right. Chopping off the King's head is not always the solution - France is on its fifth republic after all... @ Guy Gardner - historically the Welsh have been the upstarts clamouring for independence, though that wore off in the 20th Century. Scotland were mostly content (we paid them off) but are now seeking political and diplomatic independence. Why shouldn't British Colonies have remained British? What practical value has there been to the world by America becoming independent? Ho Chi Min's inspiration led to him throwing off French Colonialism... Democracy is the worst system of governing, but there's nothing better. American democracy is even worse than most.
No. Just simply, that America needed a terrorist, and it just lucked out enough to have one, right when she needed him.
As I guessed you are nothing but a petty, bigoted chauvinist. So far you covered Irishmen, women and Americans. I wonder when you will start rant about Jews, Catholics and Blacks. Come on, now that you already talked about the violence of women and Irishmen while totally neglecting the systemic violence of the patriarchy and the United Kingdom, you can also talk about the wicked Catholic folks from the IRA and the uberterrorist Malcolm X. Come on, enlighten us with your bigoted crap. That kind of sh*t nearly destroyed Europe over 60 years ago. Pity that not all of us have learned a lesson from history. Let me tell you a few universal truths. The stupid country one is accidentally living is nothing special and there are many types of terrorists. One of the worst kinds is the type which steals lands, pretends to not have done anything wrong and cries foul when an enlightened sci-fi series mentions that this evil will be undone in the early 21st century.
That's a bit like saying that Stepin Fetchit wasn't a racist character because he was played by a black man. You know, I'm always happy to concede that the majority of members of one culture will never fully understand other cultures. That's just life. But to say that Americans can't understand the British-Irish conflict because we're too "young" is just bullshit. There's no such thing as genetic memory. You don't learn about something by your culture being young or old, you learn about it by living and learning about history. Britons and Irish don't have a better understanding of the situation because they're old cultures; they have a better understanding because they live in it and it's a part of their history. You might as well try to say that Britons will never understand the relationship between African Americans and white Americans because Brits are too "old" of a culture. It's just nonsense. "The High Ground" did not say that terrorism was "right because it's the only way." Data explores that question, but the episode itself presents many different viewpoints about what terrorism is and when it may or may not be justified. The relevant line, for the record: I'm going to hold my tongue on my preferred response, since this is not TNG. But suffice it to say that the British government went back on its previous arrangement of "salutory neglect." It started trying to micromanage the colonists and denied millions of people the right to be governed by their own elected legislatures and executives, and denied them representation in Parliament. And, ultimately -- the colonists just didn't really think of themselves as Britons anymore. That's why the Thirteen Colonies shouldn't have remained British: Because they didn't want to, and they had a natural right to self-determination. You mean besides the numerous American innovations in science, technology, and governance? Democracy is the only system of government that ensures that those who rule have the consent of majority of those whom they govern. Some form of democracy is, in other words, the only legitimate system of government.
For the record, if we want to get really specific and practical about what Americans have contributed to humanity, Americans invented: - the swivel chair (by Thomas Jefferson, no less) - the flatboat - bifocals - the automatic flour mill - the cotton gin - the modern suspension bridge - the fire hydrant - vapor-compression refrigeration - the coffee percolator - the circular saw - dental floss - the doorbell - Morse code - the wrench - the steam-shovel - the circuit breaker - ether-based anesthesia - the hand-cranked ice cream maker - the gas mask - the jackhammer - the safety pin - the dishwasher - the inverted microscope - the elevator break - the fire alarm box - mass-produced commercial toilet paper - the dustpan - the ironing board - the electric stove - the escalator - the machine gun - breakfast cereal - the urinal - barbed wire - the refrigerator car - the vibrator - the clothes hanger - the rotary can opener - sandblasting - the feather duster - the railway air break - the silo - jeans - the automated fire sprinkler - the QWERTY keyboard - the electric dental drill - the mimeograph - the airbrush - the phonograph - the photographic plate - the cash register - the oil burner - the metal detector - the electric iron - the solar cell - the thermostat - the dissolvable pill - the lap steel guitar - photographic film - the skyscraper - the fuel dispenser - the filing cabinet - the telephone directory - the screen door - the gramophone record - the alternating current motor - the revolving door - the ballpoint pen - the payphone - the stop sign - the smoke detector - the Ferris wheel - the Tesla coil - the rotary dial - the zipper - the dimmer - the gasoline-powered tractor - laxatives - the mousetrap - the medical glove - the Philips-head screw - the assembly line - the disposable safety razor - the electric hearing aide - the postage meter - air conditioning - the tea bag - the airplane - automatic transmission - alternating current power plugs and sockets - the curtain rod - the paper towel - the Edison light bulb - the binder clip - the electric traffic light - the toggle light switch - the hydraulic break - the pop-up toaster - the adhesive bandage (aka the Band-Aid) - the bulldozer - masking tape - the liquid fuel rocket - sliced bread - the recliner - the iron lung - the modern tampon - sunglasses - runway lights - the chocolate chip cookie - the electric guitar - the radio telescope - the tape dispenser - frequency modulation (FM radio) - the Richter magnitude scale - the compact fluorescent lamp - the shopping cart - the blood bank - fiberglass - xerography (photocopying) - the twist tie - the automated teller machine - the scuba set - the modern antiperspirant - the microwave oven - the space telescope - cancer chemotherapy - Tupperware - the waterproof diaper - the transistor - the defibrillator - supersonic aircraft - cat litter - cable television - radiocarbon dating - the atomic clock - the credit card - the airbag - the polio vaccine - the barcode - the artificial heart - the heart-lung machine - CPR - the nuclear submarine - the hard disk drive - videotape - the laser - the wireless microphone - bubble wrap - the zip tie - the integrated circuit - the weather satellite - the magnetic stripe card - the birth control pill - the communications satellite - the light-emitting diode - the computer mouse - the glucose meter - the cordless telephone - hypertext - dynamic random access memory - the hand-held calculator - the lunar module (that whole landing on the Moon thing) - the wide-body aircraft - the personal computer - the microprocessor - e-mail - the video game console - GPS - magnetic resonance imaging - the cellular telephone - voicemail - the Heimlich maneuver - the Hepatitis B virus vaccine - the atomic force microscope - wheeled luggage - JavaScript - Adobe Flash - computer bulletin board systems - the space shuttle - the graphical user interface - the Internet And that's ignoring the political contributions the U.S. has made over its history. So whaddaya think? Has the United States of America contributed enough practical value to the human race yet?