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Was Tattoo a racist episode?

I wouldn't count tupperware and the stop sign as worthwhile contributions. ;)
Seriously, I think you nicely pointed out via the example of your own country that self-determination is important. Seems as if our British friend seems to mentally still live in the glorious past of the British Empire.
 
For the record, if we want to get really specific and practical about what Americans have contributed to humanity, Americans invented:

- the swivel chair (by Thomas Jefferson, no less)
- the flatboat
- bifocals
- the automatic flour mill
- the cotton gin
- the modern suspension bridge
- the fire hydrant
- vapor-compression refrigeration
- the coffee percolator
- the circular saw
- dental floss
- the doorbell
- Morse code
- the wrench
- the steam-shovel
- the circuit breaker
- ether-based anesthesia
- the hand-cranked ice cream maker
- the gas mask
- the jackhammer
- the safety pin
- the dishwasher
- the inverted microscope
- the elevator break
- the fire alarm box
- mass-produced commercial toilet paper
- the dustpan
- the ironing board
- the electric stove
- the escalator
- the machine gun
- breakfast cereal
- the urinal
- barbed wire
- the refrigerator car
- the vibrator
- the clothes hanger
- the rotary can opener
- sandblasting
- the feather duster
- the railway air break
- the silo
- jeans
- the automated fire sprinkler
- the QWERTY keyboard
- the electric dental drill
- the mimeograph
- the airbrush
- the phonograph
- the photographic plate
- the cash register
- the oil burner
- the metal detector
- the electric iron
- the solar cell
- the thermostat
- the dissolvable pill
- the lap steel guitar
- photographic film
- the skyscraper
- the fuel dispenser
- the filing cabinet
- the telephone directory
- the screen door
- the gramophone record
- the alternating current motor
- the revolving door
- the ballpoint pen
- the payphone
- the stop sign
- the smoke detector
- the Ferris wheel
- the Tesla coil
- the rotary dial
- the zipper
- the dimmer
- the gasoline-powered tractor
- laxatives
- the mousetrap
- the medical glove
- the Philips-head screw
- the assembly line
- the disposable safety razor
- the electric hearing aide
- the postage meter
- air conditioning
- the tea bag
- the airplane
- automatic transmission
- alternating current power plugs and sockets
- the curtain rod
- the paper towel
- the Edison light bulb
- the binder clip
- the electric traffic light
- the toggle light switch
- the hydraulic break
- the pop-up toaster
- the adhesive bandage (aka the Band-Aid)
- the bulldozer
- masking tape
- the liquid fuel rocket
- sliced bread
- the recliner
- the iron lung
- the modern tampon
- sunglasses
- runway lights
- the chocolate chip cookie
- the electric guitar
- the radio telescope
- the tape dispenser
- frequency modulation (FM radio)
- the Richter magnitude scale
- the compact fluorescent lamp
- the shopping cart
- the blood bank
- fiberglass
- xerography (photocopying)
- the twist tie
- the automated teller machine
- the scuba set
- the modern antiperspirant
- the microwave oven
- the space telescope
- cancer chemotherapy
- Tupperware
- the waterproof diaper
- the transistor
- the defibrillator
- supersonic aircraft
- cat litter
- cable television
- radiocarbon dating
- the atomic clock
- the credit card
- the airbag
- the polio vaccine
- the barcode
- the artificial heart
- the heart-lung machine
- CPR
- the nuclear submarine
- the hard disk drive
- videotape
- the laser
- the wireless microphone
- bubble wrap
- the zip tie
- the integrated circuit
- the weather satellite
- the magnetic stripe card
- the birth control pill
- the communications satellite
- the light-emitting diode
- the computer mouse
- the glucose meter
- the cordless telephone
- hypertext
- dynamic random access memory
- the hand-held calculator
- the lunar module (that whole landing on the Moon thing)
- the wide-body aircraft
- the personal computer
- the microprocessor
- e-mail
- the video game console
- GPS
- magnetic resonance imaging
- the cellular telephone
- voicemail
- the Heimlich maneuver
- the Hepatitis B virus vaccine
- the atomic force microscope
- wheeled luggage
- JavaScript
- Adobe Flash
- computer bulletin board systems
- the space shuttle
- the graphical user interface
- the Internet

And that's ignoring the political contributions the U.S. has made over its history.

So whaddaya think? Has the United States of America contributed enough practical value to the human race yet?

I'm assuming this is directed at me? I used to have a Scottish friend, who took great delight in telling me all the things that had been invented by Scottish people. But he never claimed that Scotland invented those things. The political contributions I'll give you, but most of the things on that list would have been invented whether there was a USA or not!
 
To be fair, at least 3/4s of the stuff on that list has to do with a the production or consumption of alcohol, which means the Irish would have gotten around to it next.

Or the Australians.
 
So whaddaya think? Has the United States of America contributed enough practical value to the human race yet?

I'm assuming this is directed at me? I used to have a Scottish friend, who took great delight in telling me all the things that had been invented by Scottish people. But he never claimed that Scotland invented those things. The political contributions I'll give you, but most of the things on that list would have been invented whether there was a USA or not!

Maybe. Maybe not. There's no way to know -- but like it or not, Americans were the ones to contribute those things to the human race. You can't say, "What have they contributed?" and then try to re-assign their actual contributions in some imaginary counterfactual.
 
I didn't, I said "what practical value has there been to America becoming independent?"

So you're answering a question you invented yourself...
 
late entry into WW1 and ww2?

Meanwhile Lizzy would have curtailed or retooled most of the little wars America started since the fall of Nazi Germany.
 
The Falklands lasted a month.

Wouldn't the world have been more perfect if Bush had declared victory after a month?
 
Oh I dunno...we got some mildly amusing satire from that...in fact you've convinced me, Mission Accomplished on the Aircraft Carrier is a damn good reason why American Independence is a good thing, I mean sure all the inventions, but there's nothing we Brits love more than dry humour!
 
No, I've seen sovereign America, and I've seen The British Colony of America, I'm wondering how the French would have handled things? They were in the running for top dog of the US a few hundred years ago.

If France owned America, and it's resources, would Hitler have invaded France or drawn up a Non aggression pact like he did with Stalin?

That would have locked Locked the contiguous expansion of Nazi German into Europe, and the Germans would not have overextended themselves to the point of defeat like they did in our timeline.

Hell that would mean Britain would be cut off form the war too, and if they wanted to be involved, they would have to go around or fight through France thus forcing France to become an active ally of Nazi Germany.

Meanwhile what the frack was Japan going to do if Germany had a nonaggression pact with the Franco States of America? Would they sit the war out, pick a new target, or wait till Germany looked weak?

Hitler would have stopped in 1941, because there were no sane options left to attack, and ordered the women of Germany to have a billion babies for the next phase in the war. Yes a billion babies, it may be an alternative history, but Adolph still chews his carpet trimmming.

Unless he couldn't stop himself from invading Russia?

I mean seriously.

It's Stalin.

Seriously.

The only reason somebugger grows a mustache that huge is to make you doubt the powerfulness of your own penis.

No one calls my penis, or Hitlers penis tiny and gets away with it.

NO ONE!

Honestly, you'd think that god would have given hm less nose to make room for all that mustache, but fuck... Look at that schnozzle!
 
I didn't, I said "what practical value has there been to America becoming independent?"

So you're answering a question you invented yourself...

And there's no telling whether, or which, of those things would have been invented if history had been so fundamentally different that the colonies never became independent.

You cannot separate an artifact from the culture that invented it.
 
Err...Jefferson was sat in his swivel chair when he was drafting the Declaration of Independence...

"Forsooth, I say, this chair turneth...give us therefore, a land where the will of the people may similarly turneth the paddle of democracy"
 
I consider it rather splendid that a group of writers and directors and actors that specializes in science fiction would enjoy portraying the american indian and their culture. The american indian is noted for their cleanliness, solicitude, their humanitarian aspect and their god is very intertwined with the sky, trees, rivers and mother nature that nourishes and revitalizes their being. 'Racism' or any of the posts in this thread cannot be implied here for the simple reason that it is out of context.
 
Err...Jefferson was sat in his swivel chair when he was drafting the Declaration of Independence...

"Forsooth, I say, this chair turneth...give us therefore, a land where the will of the people may similarly turneth the paddle of democracy"

Fascinating how you do not refute my assertion that you cannot separate an artifact from the culture that created it, and that as such the Untied States is owed credit for the inventions Americans have given the world.

I consider it rather splendid that a group of writers and directors and actors that specializes in science fiction would enjoy portraying the american indian and their culture. The american indian is noted for their cleanliness, solicitude, their humanitarian aspect and their god is very intertwined with the sky, trees, rivers and mother nature that nourishes and revitalizes their being.

Um, which Native American nation and culture are you referring to?
 
JB's point was that the swivel chair was invented by a subject of the British Crown living in the British Colonies of America paying taxes to King George.

We wouldn't see any extreme differences to the time-line until the "wrong" children started being born.

of course if America was still a Colony by the beginning of the 19th century, that would have given George and Wellington massive resources to draw upon in their tussle with Napoleon.

Hanging onto American could have seen the union Jack flying in Paris as the standard, or the size of France greatly reduced "again".
 
The Britsh Empire is all the rage. It is the primary inspiration for almost all steampunk, which right there is a goodly proportion of all nonmilitary SF. And of course the British Empire has always been a leading model for military SF. As society's decay accelerates, all the old shit is coming back, except it's now called chocolate.

As for Ireland, the English never left completely, nor is there any indication they will ever leave. There's more resources in the Orange enclave than ever were in the Falklands, even if you double counted the sheep. Not only will the English not leave Ireland until they're finally kicked out, the English are taking time shares in the new, nonsovereign state of Ireland, the one that has its fiscal and social policies determined by foreign banks. Neocolonialism with an inhuman face, you might call it. Whether or not the IRA is too rooted in Catholicism to play a further role in the liberation of Ireland is a moot point. But there isn't the slightest reason to believe that the reunification of Ireland and the expulsion of the invaders won't require some sort of force. We can hope the threat of war would be enough force, but it will take force.
 
You may have noticed the recent military crackdown in Scotland and the UK Government ordering the devolved Parliament in Edinburgh dissolved after Alex Salmond said he wanted to cut ties with England? That's right we're damned ruthless! And we'll keep troops in Glasgow and Aberdeen until the Scottish cave in!

Ireland was invaded long before anyone had even uttered the phrase "British Empire." And in 1921 we have Northern Ireland being given the honest to god choice, do you want to be part of the UK or part of the Irish Free State. Now I can understand why America wouldn't understand this -to misquote Spock - your response to secession was, shall we say, unique - Of course we won't leave until we're kicked out, we also won't leave Gibraltar, Falkland Islands or Yorkshire - because we have this stupid idea of letting citizens of the United Kingdom decide for themselves whether or not they want to be part of the Union...

And say what you like about the British Empire, Pax Britannia kept the peace for 100 years in Europe!
 
:shrug:
That's a bit like saying that Stepin Fetchit wasn't a racist character because he was played by a black man.
Considering I corrected myself and gave the proper episode title within the same post, was there a point to this other than being argumentative for arguments sake?:shrug:
 
You may have noticed the recent military crackdown in Scotland and the UK Government ordering the devolved Parliament in Edinburgh dissolved after Alex Salmond said he wanted to cut ties with England? That's right we're damned ruthless! And we'll keep troops in Glasgow and Aberdeen until the Scottish cave in!

Ireland was invaded long before anyone had even uttered the phrase "British Empire." And in 1921 we have Northern Ireland being given the honest to god choice, do you want to be part of the UK or part of the Irish Free State. Now I can understand why America wouldn't understand this -to misquote Spock - your response to secession was, shall we say, unique - Of course we won't leave until we're kicked out, we also won't leave Gibraltar, Falkland Islands or Yorkshire - because we have this stupid idea of letting citizens of the United Kingdom decide for themselves whether or not they want to be part of the Union...

And say what you like about the British Empire, Pax Britannia kept the peace for 100 years in Europe!
Talking about the hypocrisy of an imperialist chauvinist, I love how you mix up "everybody has a free choice" with "we won't leave until we're kicked out".

About your Pax Britannia:
What kind of peace do I mean and what kind of a peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war. - JFK
 
JB's point was that the swivel chair was invented by a subject of the British Crown living in the British Colonies of America paying taxes to King George.

Uh, no, the colonies were in open revolt against the Crown by 1775, and not paying taxes to His Majesty. The swivel chair was invented in 1776, the same year Jefferson ceased to be a British subject.

We wouldn't see any extreme differences to the time-line until the "wrong" children started being born.
You're talking about a trans-oceanic Revolutionary War that triggered mass migrations of people into and out of the former colonies, especially as United Empire Loyalists fled to England and Canada. The wrong children would start being born relatively soon.

The Britsh Empire is all the rage. It is the primary inspiration for almost all steampunk, which right there is a goodly proportion of all nonmilitary SF. And of course the British Empire has always been a leading model for military SF. As society's decay accelerates, all the old shit is coming back, except it's now called chocolate.

As for Ireland, the English never left completely, nor is there any indication they will ever leave. There's more resources in the Orange enclave than ever were in the Falklands, even if you double counted the sheep. Not only will the English not leave Ireland until they're finally kicked out, the English are taking time shares in the new, nonsovereign state of Ireland, the one that has its fiscal and social policies determined by foreign banks. Neocolonialism with an inhuman face, you might call it. Whether or not the IRA is too rooted in Catholicism to play a further role in the liberation of Ireland is a moot point. But there isn't the slightest reason to believe that the reunification of Ireland and the expulsion of the invaders won't require some sort of force. We can hope the threat of war would be enough force, but it will take force.

I completely agree with you that the Irish Republic's sovereignty is threatened by Europe's response to the financial crisis.

But to say that the English invaders are still occupying Ireland is just silly. Unless you're contending that Irish people in Northern Ireland who want N.I. to stay in the United Kingdom are somehow not true Irish.

You may have noticed the recent military crackdown in Scotland and the UK Government ordering the devolved Parliament in Edinburgh dissolved after Alex Salmond said he wanted to cut ties with England? That's right we're damned ruthless! And we'll keep troops in Glasgow and Aberdeen until the Scottish cave in!

Ireland was invaded long before anyone had even uttered the phrase "British Empire." And in 1921 we have Northern Ireland being given the honest to god choice, do you want to be part of the UK or part of the Irish Free State. Now I can understand why America wouldn't understand this -to misquote Spock - your response to secession was, shall we say, unique - Of course we won't leave until we're kicked out, we also won't leave Gibraltar, Falkland Islands or Yorkshire - because we have this stupid idea of letting citizens of the United Kingdom decide for themselves whether or not they want to be part of the Union...

I completely agree about the U.K. giving its constituent countries the chance to democratically decide if they want to stay or go. Though the crack about America not understanding that was unfair -- especially since the Confederacy fired the first shot, and the Southern states didn't allow their people to democratically decide whether or not to secede, by virtue of one-third of Southerners being enslaved.

And say what you like about the British Empire, Pax Britannia kept the peace for 100 years in Europe!
I mean, unless you were one of the victims of imperial violence in the lands the Empire had conquered.
 
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