Shelby's qualifications and drive to succeed are not the problem. Her SMUGNESS is. She is enjoying rubbing Riker's face in it. That's why she's being a jerk.
Was Riker a jerk to Shelby?
- Thread starter Gul Bones
- Start date
Personally, I think the reason Will was able to go... was because Deanna went with him.
Actually he was quite polite and friendly with her at the start, but everything turned around when she started jumping to conclusions on him leaving the ship and ready to steal his grave before he was even dead.... then she continued to try and show off just how good she was and trying every single thing she could do to try & impress Picard and circumventing Riker's orders, or just going off to do her own thing without filling in her superior officer on what was going on.
I'd be a little PO'd myself.
He explained his reasons quite well, especially when he could see the other officers (minus Data) were exhausted and needed a break.... she may have been fine then, but chances are, she'd be crap the next day.... experience vs. enthusiasm.
That's pretty much all it was at first.... she was pulling some rookie mistakes due to wanting to impress which in the long run can cause some serious problems.... and right around the time she went over his head by going to Picard, he had enough and told her so, as well he should have.... but she then got on the defence, didn't see her mistake, didn't apologize and kept sticking it to Riker.
As far as I'm concerned, he put up with her crap a hell of a lot longer than many others would have in his shoes, but at the same time, he still kept a clear head about the whole situation and knew her value and showed this by later making her his first officer and used many of her ideas.... they eventually learned to work well together.
But he also had a conversation with Troi as to what his issue was, in that he used to be like her and wasn't anymore.... which happened due to experience and having the responsibility of being 1st officer (and the ship itself) in his hands, where she was still trying to do everything she could to get her hands on that, without thinking of much else besides herself.
I disagree.... he was very friendly with her from the start and everything was perfectly fine until she shoved it in his face that she was there to take his job (before he even decided he was going to leave or not) and she not only started the spat.... she kept it going and going and going.
He was trying to do his job..... she was trying to be competitive.... when he tried to be civil about the situation and enforce his position as 1st officer of the Enterprise, she continually passed him off, ignored him and did everything she could to make the situation complicated until she was ordered to do something.
She was border-line insubordinate at almost every turn and while she had good initiative and some good ideas.... she didn't respect the chain of command & used her equal rank as Commander to do this every chance she could, as if he didn't even exist.
If the situation wasn't so dire and her expertise wasn't so important, she would have been dropped on her head a long time ago.
But in saying all of that, they both learned from each other.... he learned that he became too comfortable and that he played it safe too often, while not having confidence in his own command abilities, which is one of the reasons why he turned down so many offers to Command his own ship.....
..... and she learned to think about the bigger picture, that there's more to being a 1st officer and command than she originally thought.
In the end, Riker learned something about himself that he had the ability to command and to make the ship and crew work the way he works..... and had to do this by out-thinking Picard and all of his vast knowledge being used by the borg.
Riker wasn't perfect and had his own demons to deal with, but all things considered, I thought he handled the situation pretty well.
Last edited:
It's always fascinating that Riker didn't get a command during the Dominion war.
Starfleet needs good Captains. And here is Riker running around doing pointless crap on the Enterprise. The most advanced ship in the fleet! That was probably the most unrealistic aspect of Riker's career.
Starfleet needs good Captains. And here is Riker running around doing pointless crap on the Enterprise. The most advanced ship in the fleet! That was probably the most unrealistic aspect of Riker's career.
I disagree. Shelby acted unprofessionally 100%.
Imagine in your profession if someone came in and began acting in this manner. Totally inappropriate behavior.
I'd like to return to the question of Riker not advancing his career.
I always found it weird that advancing one's career should be such a big deal or that by advancing we necessarily mean "becoming captain".
After all, Riker was on the flagship of the Federation, being part of interesting missions and is constantly bombarded with options to become captain on some boring several year deep space assignment. Why would he want to take it? Just to "advance his career"? Just to "become captain"?
It seems to me that interesting life is more than officer rankings. Riker, the vibrant person he is, did the right choice - stayed with the ship that offers true adventure, as opposed to being called "captain" on some mediocre mission.
And, finally, why doesn't anyone question captain's Picard career? What, he is not an admiral? How come? Why doesn't he advance his career?
I always found it weird that advancing one's career should be such a big deal or that by advancing we necessarily mean "becoming captain".
After all, Riker was on the flagship of the Federation, being part of interesting missions and is constantly bombarded with options to become captain on some boring several year deep space assignment. Why would he want to take it? Just to "advance his career"? Just to "become captain"?
It seems to me that interesting life is more than officer rankings. Riker, the vibrant person he is, did the right choice - stayed with the ship that offers true adventure, as opposed to being called "captain" on some mediocre mission.
And, finally, why doesn't anyone question captain's Picard career? What, he is not an admiral? How come? Why doesn't he advance his career?
Because first officer is a "captain-in-training" position.
(Slow clap)
Totally agree. No one questions why Picard doesn't advance his career. Maybe being first officer on the best ship in the fleet is better than being Captain on a mediocre one.
But is it? I thought First Officer meant something else. You don't say that Vice President is a "president-in-training" position, right?
=)
Being first officer on the Federation flagship DEFINITELY has more prestige than a captain on a mediocre ship. The flagship is involved in high profile missions and diplomatic festivities. Riker would not be smoozing with alien ambassadors on a mediocre ship.
From an individual point-of-view, perhaps this is true. But if Starfleet (as all too many are all too quick to assert) is primarily a military organisation, then individual preference is of secondary importance to the value to Starfleet of a given officer in a given position. Obviously Starfleet felt that Riker was well-suited to the Captain's chair, or they wouldn't have put him up for promotion three times.
That said, the admiral's and Picard's reactions to Riker's career moves were kind of TNG-ey, and not in a good way. They were concerned more about Riker's personal feelings on the matter and his individual career than about the implications for Starfleet. Particularly after Wolf 359, Starfleet should have been kicking his arse to get into the Captain's seat once they'd begun rebuilding in earnest, seeing as how they'd just lost pretty much all of their captains' talents there (and a few admirals'). Instead, Riker just signs off with a 'that's my business' line which felt a bit contrived and overly neat.
At some point, they really should have said, "Riker, we're promoting Data to first officer of the Enterprise. You can either become a captain, or you can become first officer on a little tug that transports people from Mars to a science station near Pluto. The flagship isn't your retirement home. Move up, or get out of the way."
Like Picard said, there's a certain glory to being just first officer or even second officer for that matter. You get to sit in the chair and give orders, yet not have to take full responsibility.
I can't blame Riker too much for that, it's a cool position.
As far as Riker's personality, he's a cool, nice person in general, yet there have been times when he seems easily annoyed.
Like when a young ensign tried to have a conversation with him (nosing up to him) and Riker appeared almost snobby.
There have been a few times when Riker gave that "glare" to someone.
I can't blame Riker too much for that, it's a cool position.
As far as Riker's personality, he's a cool, nice person in general, yet there have been times when he seems easily annoyed.
Like when a young ensign tried to have a conversation with him (nosing up to him) and Riker appeared almost snobby.
There have been a few times when Riker gave that "glare" to someone.
Riker's personality is driven more by pleasure than by work duties. If he were so concerned about his career, he wouldn't be having sexual relationships with his co-workers (Troi, maybe others). Notice that Picard never had sex with his co-workers, even though he may have wanted to (Dr. Crusher).
Similar threads
