Was Flipping the Casting the Wrong Call?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Bry_Sinclair, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. trekshark

    trekshark Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Location:
    USA
    Other than trek i saw her in a guest spot on one of those procedurals, ncis or csi. And wasn't she in deep impact?
    But yeah, she never did much, since even in a cameo I'd remember her if i saw her due to trek.
     
  2. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Always felt that Frakes and Sirtis had no real on-screen chemistry, they came off more as pleasant friends, rather than two ex-lovers. No electricity.

    Riker (the big flirt) never showed interest in Yar, but it's possible that there could have been interesting chemistry if Crosby were cast as Troi, and she was play off of Frakes.

    Troi had many scenes with Picard, Patrick Stewart and Crosby were only two inches different in height, I wonder how that would effect the dynamic in scenes?

    Also wonder how Crosby would look in that blue dress?
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
    Orphalesion and Bry_Sinclair like this.
  3. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Isn't that pretty much why she came back to appear in TNG whenever they asked, because her movie career didn't take off?
    Makes you wonder if they had allowed her to come back full-time and reintroduced Yar if they hadn't killed her off...Like, say if she had just ended up being trapped on a planet and the Enterprise could have rescued her in Season 3/4.

    (Oh god, now I could see this really, really awful alternate version of Skin of Evil, where Yar stays behind on that planet to "teach Armus what love is" Don't lie people, that is totally something that could have happened in TNG season 1, and it would have made that episode even worse.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  4. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Or she was assigned to Starfleet command college, came back a Lt. Commander.
     
    trekshark and Orphalesion like this.
  5. Tim Zombieson

    Tim Zombieson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    Daniels' Illinois
    Yar as Shelby. Yar as Jellico. Just keep bringing her back with unlikely promotions every couple of years.

    Yar as Nechayev.

    Yar as Jaresh-Inyo.
     
    Orphalesion likes this.
  6. Geoff Peterson

    Geoff Peterson Robot Skeleton Sidekick Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    In a crate at CBS Studio Center
    Yar as Q
     
    Orphalesion and Tim Zombieson like this.
  7. Tim Zombieson

    Tim Zombieson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    Daniels' Illinois
    If they got rid of Crosby-Troi, but kept Lt. Hernandez, Worf would make a great ship's counselor.

    Picard: "Hernandez, cut off communications. Counselor, what do you think are their intentions."
    Worf: "They are without honor. I say we obliterate them."
    Picard: "I'll put that under advisement."

    ----

    Ensign: "Ever since my husband died, I've been so overcome with grief."
    Worf: "As you should be. Your husband died outside of battle, and you have not properly appeased Kortar, the Ferryman. He will never enter Sto-Vo-Kor, due to your reckless inaction."
     
    Valin, PhotoBoy, Bry_Sinclair and 3 others like this.
  8. cardinal biggles

    cardinal biggles will sell no wine before its time Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2001
    Location:
    potrzebie
    Are you kidding? Lwaxana was a hoot, it was probably the best character Majel Barret ever played. (And she got even better when they took her to DS9 and had her start hitting on Odo.)
    Crosby did two episodes of NYPD Blue back in 2000, as a ball-busting lieutenant who's brought in to make the detectives squirm until the real new lieutenant (Tony Rodriguez, played by Esai Morales) replaces her. She did what was asked of her, but to be honest, the character was about as two-dimensional as Yar.
     
    Orphalesion likes this.
  9. Takeboo

    Takeboo Takeru - Space Police Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    Germany, EU, Earth
    I think Crosby still would have wanted to leave because there wasn't much to do for Troi in the first season and like Sirtis she would see the writing in the wall when she doesn't appear in several episodes. Roddenberry decided to kill Yar off to show it was dangerous and he might have done the same with Crosby-Troi unless he wanted to keep her around for Majel to still have a reason to show up, so I could see Crosby-Troi remaining off screen in her counselor's office and I don't think Crosby would have been opposed to doing occasional guest appearances.

    With Hernandez staying Worf obviously doesn't become chief of security but there was an open job, chief engineer. With Worf not having a defined job it would have made sense to move him down there instead of Geordie.

    The third seat doesn't need to be assigned to someone specific, it could just be an additional seat for the counselor or doctor, a visiting ambassador, a mission specialist or anyone else who has a reason to be on the bridge but doesn't have an assigned station.

    With Geordie staying on the bridge Wesley doesn't get to fly the ship but that's a good thing. He could be an intern popping up everywhere, sometimes he's in engineering, sometimes in the transporter room, sometimes he works with Data or Hernandez. Wesley getting an officer's job as the permanent pilot was weird, it kinda devalues the position if they give the job to a kid with barely any training.
     
    Bry_Sinclair and Orphalesion like this.
  10. Tim Zombieson

    Tim Zombieson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    Daniels' Illinois
    Lwaxana Troi was introduced early in Season 1 and possibly cast and conceived of independently of Sirtis as Troi. It's quite possible Barrett would still play Lwaxana with the same mannerisms towards Crosby-Troi (but perhaps with a blonde wig, again).

    After Crosby-Troi's death in Season 1, possibly via Armus, it'd be interesting if they brought back Lwaxana. Maybe as just a Federation ambassador angry at her daughter's death in "Manhunt" but later rarely mentioning it and is just a comic foil or sympathetic character in later TNG appearances, like she was on DS9.
     
    Orphalesion likes this.
  11. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Personally I think they would have put Data in Troi's chair. Not as counselor, but in his rank as Second Officer of the Enterprise, so they could have put either Worf or Geordie in his chair as OPS officer.
    I mean, they couldn't just have left the third centre seat be empty. Unless they would have remodeled the bridge between seasons to just have Picard's and Riker's chairs in the middle, in a sorta Voyager-like configuration.
     
    Bry_Sinclair likes this.
  12. The HorrOrville

    The HorrOrville Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    I think Sirtis would make a better Yar than Crosby would have made a good Troi. Also the amount of dumb blonde jokes that would have come with Crosby doing the "I sense your pain" stuff would have been something that fans talked about. I still think though they made the right choice but if I got say if I had to choose I think I would have rather had Yar stay and the Troi character leave. Yar would have been a fun character once Pillar and Moore etc showed up.

    Jason
     
    Bry_Sinclair likes this.
  13. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    I love this Marina Sirtis interview I heard on some podcast, where she pushed back hard on the idea that Tasha had no development in season one and asserting that if she had been in that role, Tasha would have been on the show all 7 years. She also talked about the "too many women" thing and how close she came to getting axed, before things went awry with Crosby and McFadden in other ways.

    Troi is my favorite TNG character, and I always attributed most of that to Sirtis herself. That was the luckiest casting choice they made, that character played by a less interesting actress would have been a disaster. I definitely think the flip was a fantastic choice, but I also think it would have ultimately shaken out fine the other way, in that I suspect I'd have loved SirtisYar as much as I loved SirtisTroi.

    I'm sure if they'd cast Crosby as Troi, she would have been gone at the end of season. It's not like the writing for any of the characters was that different, quality-wise. And with the writers obviously struggling with Troi, the actress being unhappy, and the producers feeling the show had too many women, what would have kept her around?

    My suspicion is that Sirtis-as-Yar would have ultimately landed the same place Troi did (in the series)... paired off with Worf. And those two characters could have made much more sense together.
     
    Bry_Sinclair and Orphalesion like this.
  14. Tim Zombieson

    Tim Zombieson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    Daniels' Illinois
    From another thread, I'm of the opinion that Worf would wind up as flight controller if the security chief position never opened up. Geordi seemed destined for chief engineer, and it isn't set in stone that Wesley would be flight controller. Perhaps Wesley might be the one given the third chair, if only to observe the actions of the bridge crew as an acting ensign, but not really get involved (until Picard orders him to take over the conn station or ops when the requisite officer beams down).

    That, of course, brings to mind what will happen to the third chair in the fourth season and beyond when(/if) Wesley is written out of the show. At that point, it might just stay there mostly unoccupied. A more comfortable place for an observer to rest while on the bridge. Dr. Crusher can use it from time-to-time, and Admirals of the day can comfortably "advise" Picard when the episode calls for it. When you get that Saterran on the bridge claiming to be XO, Riker can have the third chair as a hypothetical second officer.
     
    Bry_Sinclair likes this.
  15. Velocity

    Velocity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 19, 2001
    Location:
    In the back of beyond
    I liked Lwaxana too, if only for the way she scared Picard.
     
  16. cardinal biggles

    cardinal biggles will sell no wine before its time Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2001
    Location:
    potrzebie
    I guess I could see Worf becoming the helmsman, but he really was a natural fit for the tactical/security chief position — you have to love that juxtaposition of the badass warrior who's constantly having to rein in his impulses to beat the crap out of an intruder or fire everything at the first sight of a Romulan warbird (and it makes it all the more meaningful when he does cross the line, like killing Duras).

    While Marina Sirtis is right that Tasha didn't get zero character development, she was certainly less integral to the stories than Troi was, and I think whoever ended up playing the Yar/Hernandez role would have been stuck with a lot of "Hailing frequencies open" and shield callouts and not a lot of character stuff. Ironically it's Denise Crosby's final three appearances that season which I think gave her the most to do — all that planetside action in "Arsenal of Freedom," her "drugs are bad, mmmkay?" speech in "Symbiosis," and of course "Skin of Evil." But once you start changing actors, it also changes the whole character dynamic: how would Crosby-Troi play off of Frakes? How would Sirtis-Hernandez play off of Spiner or Dorn?

    Ultimately, Crosby's departure was a net gain for the show — Troi got to stay, which was good because once you get past "The Child," the writing for her starts to gradually get better, and of course it opens the door for Worf to have an actual job and not just be the floating bridge officer/extra muscle on the away team, and therefore gave him some more character development.
     
  17. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Location:
    Sickbay, dammit.
    Honestly, besides Stewart, TNG's cast didn't have many strong actors. Denise Crosby was arguably the weakest of the main cast in the first season. In my opinion, she overestimated her star power because of her ancestry, and expected a much bigger career than she could actually achieve.

    Marina Sirtis ended up in the crowning role of her career, and Denise Crosby has been a has-been.

    It's Hollywood. Shit happens.
     
  18. Tim Zombieson

    Tim Zombieson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    Daniels' Illinois
    Sirtis and Crosby have both had a fairly comparable career post-TNG. Anecdotally, I've recognized Crosby (Prison Break, Walking Dead) on television more than Sirtis, who I will grant has more voice acting roles than live action. Genre shows, and really most shows in general, have a way of marginalizing careers, and it's tough to break into the Hollywood game. Patrick Stewart is probably the biggest star to come out of TNG (and Star Trek in general? Not including minor roles), and was the biggest going in, while Frakes went into directing.
     
  19. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Location:
    Orbiting Urectum
    But really in S1 if their character wasn't called Picard, Data or Wesley then the actor didn't get any real sense of development or standout moments.

    I'm also finding it really off about the "too many women" thing on the show when, at one stage of development both Crushers, Troi, Hernandez and a Vulcan science officer were all female.
     
  20. Mysterion

    Mysterion Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Location:
    Suburban Mos Eisley
    Casting Denise Crosby in any role at all was the wrong call.