Was Flipping the Casting the Wrong Call?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Bry_Sinclair, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So there is the well-known story of how Denise Crosby was in for the role of Troi and Marina Sirtis was almost Hernandez (who became Yar), until Gene Roddenberry switched them. Then throughout the first season, Crosby wasn't happy with the development of her character leading to her asking to be released from her contract whilst the writers didn't know what to do with Troi, resulting in the character not appearing at all in three episodes.

    I'm assuming had the decision not been taken and we'd ended up with Crosby-Troi and Sirtis-Hernandez that things might've gone much the same, with Troi being a headache for the writing staff, but would Crosby have become as scunnered with Troi as she did Yar, or might there have been something to the counsellor that saw her wanting to carry on.

    How might things have progressed with the two actors in their initial roles and what might it have meant for the characters? Would Crosby still ask to leave resulting in Troi being killed off? Would she have stayed and maybe become a recurring character? Had she gone what would happen with the third chair in the command area? How might Hernandez and Data's relationship changed over seven years? There are loads of other things to consider, so what are everybody's thoughts?
     
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  2. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    Based on other roles they played over the years, I think it could have worked.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    Well, Crosby couldn't act, so she was going to flounder wherever they put her and Sirtis seemed a bit soft for security chief. So I'd say they went the right way.
     
  4. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Glad it worked out like it did. Can't imagine losing Troi after 1 season...........Yar? Meh.
     
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  5. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Did you not see Pet Cemetery (1989).......what a tour de force!
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I ended up seeing it in a discount theater a few years after its release with my future wife. It was rough.
     
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  7. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think Sirtis would have definitely managed to play a security chief, she's very vocal in her interviews that she is not "sweet" like Troi. Denise Crosby as Troi...well, I have no idea, she wasn't on the show enough to get a good idea what she could do, imho. And I have not seen Crosby in anything else, ever.

    We would have still lost Troi, since I can't imagine Crosby being much more satisfied with the material Troi got early on than she was with Tasha. And remember that Roddenberry had already decided that three female characters was "too many"
    So we might have lost both Troi and Crusher. And unlike Crusher Troi wouldn't have come back, since Roddenberry at the time also seemed interesting in killing a main character to shock the audience.

    How the series would have developed.... it's difficult to imagine. Who would have filled the third centre-seat?
    And what would they have done with Worf? Years ago another user made a thread where he posted excerpts form a book about TNG's development and first season. And originally Hernandez/Tasha was in a LOT of scripts. The draft of Justice, which didn't resemble the final episode at all (no blond sex Barbies, no TOS-style God thing), featured Hernandez heavily for example, but her role and presence was quickly diminished when Worf (a last minute addition to the cast) was added and expanded.
    So would they eventually have managed to find roles for both Worf and Hernandez, or would they just have been content to have Hernandez stand behind the security console? Considering how little they did with Troi and Crusher, I'm gonna be pessimistic and say they wouldn't have done much with her.
     
  8. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Denise as Yar made more sense IMHO. Denise had a few good lines, but she was underused and not used to her strengths as much as she could have been. She was also on set and saying nothing way too often.

    I also liked her "drugs are bad" speech to Wesley, sorry.
     
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  9. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The original "Justice" was defiitely a lot better. And Worf is a cool character and became a lot more but he's not given much to do in that story either. I did get the impression a script rewrite tarnished Yar - this same script that not only makes Yar look sub-par (really, they look up all the laws but not any punishments of breaking any of them? That's hard to believe.) but also says Wesley should beam down and have fun, in the same scene where everyone says everyone is making love at the drop of any hat (as well as making more drug-resistant strains of viral and bacterial diseases)

    I can't believe Roddenberry felt "three female characters was 'too many'". IMHO, 100% of either sex would be too many but that still doesn't matter since I'm a fan of shows that are 100% female and 100% male too. I'm not dating any of them so I really can't care who has what. Why not just have characters with thought and good scripting put into them and let the actors do their job of turning what's on paper more lively on screen? (not every script will be perfect, we understand that as well... but I'd still rather see bad scripting than a person just standing there doing nothing. ) Hell, with the rumor mill and all that, shouldn't people be more surprised Roddenberry didn't feel 6 males (human(oid) and/or android were too many? Maybe 5, I did include the generic "Conn" in the pilot (renamed "O'Brien".)

    Yar's big drug speech has a Troi-like vibe, which harks back to their originally intended roles interestingly enough...

    But, yeah, Worf and Yar would have reached an impasse had Denise not left. Early TNG was a mess despite it being an ensemble piece of 8 or 9 Bridge characters. It's amazing more didn't leave the show at the time.
     
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  10. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Worf's main character development and story focus was really from his being Klingon rather than Security Chief. Once Geordi goes below decks, Worf would be the logical choice to replace him and Wesley could have had a permanent chair at the aft science station or be Geordi's apprentice down in engineering. Worf would remain in red, would probably still be included in away mission that needed extra muscle to back up Hernandez, and still have to deal with his relationship with K'Ehleyr, his family being dishonoured, his rivalry with Duras, his failure to raise Alexander, etc, though he'd have a bestie at tactical who was also an orphan who'd found a new home in Starfleet, who would also have her own stories to deal with (including returning to her failed colony homeworld).
     
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  11. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Remember Yar's rant in "Encounter st Farpoint" about how "this so-called court should get down on its kneeeeeeeeees," and imagine Troi like that. :wtf:

    Kor
     
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  12. Herbert

    Herbert Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I can, and the show likely would not have skipped a beat.
     
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  13. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    k
     
  14. Herbert

    Herbert Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Solid rebuttal :lol: I'm serious though. TNG didn't need the esteemed empathic counselor to be successful.
     
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  15. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nah it ain't TNG without Troi in my opinion. Need that Troi Riker thing, and could have used a bit more Troi plots
     
  16. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

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    the only good thing about it is Fred Gwynne, King on screen, and the Ramones
     
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  17. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ...

    well...

    ...





    Please... just,



    :guffaw:
     
  18. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They had two... Troi then Guinan (whose lines would have otherwise become Troi's)
     
  19. Herbert

    Herbert Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I couldn't possibly disagree more. Just think, without Deanna we never have to put up with lwaxana. That alone makes it worthwhile to jettison her character
     
  20. AlanC9

    AlanC9 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I saw her in a Playboy pictorial. Does that count?
     
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