Warpath Discussion Thread (major, major spoilers)
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First off, awesome book, David! It's definitely one of my favorites in the DS9-R books!
Thoughts:
- I didn't like Kira's orb sequences at first, but a second read has helped.
- Any scene with Taran'atar rocked. Same goes for Tenmei.
- Vaughn was a little too accepting of the fact that his daughter was dead, but I guess I can see it. It's also nice that their conflict is finally (?) resolved.
- It's great to see Tarses come full circle from disgrace ("The Drumhead") to glory, assuming that Ro does make a full recovery.
- I haven't read WoDS9 yet, to be honest, but I wasn't lost at all. I don't know whether that speaks to your writing skills or the impact of WoDS9. (I am gonna read it, though!) If it's the former, congrats! If it's the latter, well...
-I liked all of the little touches, such as the background characters (especially "Nurse Etana"
) and the mulititude of established races. Dax's comment about the Luna-class ships also reminded me that this took place before Taking Wing.
Thoughts:
- I didn't like Kira's orb sequences at first, but a second read has helped.
- Any scene with Taran'atar rocked. Same goes for Tenmei.
- Vaughn was a little too accepting of the fact that his daughter was dead, but I guess I can see it. It's also nice that their conflict is finally (?) resolved.
- It's great to see Tarses come full circle from disgrace ("The Drumhead") to glory, assuming that Ro does make a full recovery.
- I haven't read WoDS9 yet, to be honest, but I wasn't lost at all. I don't know whether that speaks to your writing skills or the impact of WoDS9. (I am gonna read it, though!) If it's the former, congrats! If it's the latter, well...
-I liked all of the little touches, such as the background characters (especially "Nurse Etana"
) and the mulititude of established races. Dax's comment about the Luna-class ships also reminded me that this took place before Taking Wing.Wait, wouldn't that be Dominion-ese by now, knowing them?
Thanks for your comments, Turbo.
To speak to a few of your points, I think that Tenmei underwent enough of a character change in Warpath that her relationship with Vaughn has been permanently changed -- for the better, in my opinion. Although the characters took the first steps toward possible reconciliation at the end of Unity, I felt that their issues were far from resolved. Taking the first step usually means that there is still a ways to go. Though they still have to build a new relationship from this point forward, I think they will now be able to do so, free of the burdens of their past.
As for the rising star of Dr. Simon Tarses, he's young and impassioned about his work, and I thought it would be nice to have the cute new female Bajoran doctor have a crush on him instead of on Bashir. After all, Bashir is her boss, but Tarses is a peer, and likely closer to her age.
As for "Nurse Etana" -- well, I admitted in the annotations on my web site that that was a mistake. And Dax's comment about the Luna-class ships was suggested by my ever-astute editor, Marco. So, a tip of my hat to him.
Thanks again, Turbo.
Best,
David Mack
To speak to a few of your points, I think that Tenmei underwent enough of a character change in Warpath that her relationship with Vaughn has been permanently changed -- for the better, in my opinion. Although the characters took the first steps toward possible reconciliation at the end of Unity, I felt that their issues were far from resolved. Taking the first step usually means that there is still a ways to go. Though they still have to build a new relationship from this point forward, I think they will now be able to do so, free of the burdens of their past.
As for the rising star of Dr. Simon Tarses, he's young and impassioned about his work, and I thought it would be nice to have the cute new female Bajoran doctor have a crush on him instead of on Bashir. After all, Bashir is her boss, but Tarses is a peer, and likely closer to her age.
As for "Nurse Etana" -- well, I admitted in the annotations on my web site that that was a mistake. And Dax's comment about the Luna-class ships was suggested by my ever-astute editor, Marco. So, a tip of my hat to him.
Thanks again, Turbo.
Best,
David Mack
Officers of the rank of Lieutenant Colonel are often just called Colonel, so why couldn't Kira be?
Either that, or Kira could have been promoted two steps at once. Kind of like
what happened to a bunch of VOY characters in the relaunch - they were promoted two ranks, to make up for the time spent in the DQ where they couldn't be promoted. Examples: Tom Paris went from Lieutenant JG to LCDR, Kim from Ensign to full Lieutenant, etc.
Addendum: I did see a picture of the Bajoran rank pin for Lieutenant Colonel (they actually call it "field colonel"). It wasn't the one that Kira wore. Apparently it's similar to it, though, except the inside is blackish. Remember Steven Weber's character in "The Siege"? He wore that rank pin.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Lieutenant_colonel
Yes, but people with "Lieutenant _______" ranks were specified as such in the opening credits: Dax and Worf were both credited as "Lieutenant Commander Worf" and "Lieutenant Commander Jadzia Dax," as were Data and La Forge, for that matter. But Kira was credited as "Colonel Kira Nerys" in the seventh season. No "Lieutenant."
Okay, so Kira was promoted two steps in rank. No big deal.
And as I said, the Bajorans call the rank "Field colonel", so maybe it was decided not to mention that word in the credits since many fans wouldn't know what it meant.
And as I said, the Bajorans call the rank "Field colonel", so maybe it was decided not to mention that word in the credits since many fans wouldn't know what it meant.
My few random thoughts about Warpath:
- I really enjoyed the Kira part. I love Horn and Ivory and I was great to see Kira back in action.
- I loved Quarks tribbles on Qo'noS joke.
- The death of Prynn was somehow unbelievable, the Defiant crew should not accept her death that easily.
- Ezri on the command track is not a good idea, let her go...
- For a second I thought you will kill Vaughn (and I liked that thought very much), then I thought you will kill Prynn for real (and I didn't liked that thought very much) and then you rescued them both. Come on!
- You killed the Intendant. You bastards.
- Speaking of South Park, after finishing this book I was thinking about the false "who is Cartman's dad" cliffhanger at the end of first season. At the end of Olympus Descending you dissolved the Dominion and you didn't mention it in Warpath at all. I guess we have to wait for Fearful Symmetry.
- I really enjoyed the Kira part. I love Horn and Ivory and I was great to see Kira back in action.
- I loved Quarks tribbles on Qo'noS joke.
- The death of Prynn was somehow unbelievable, the Defiant crew should not accept her death that easily.
- Ezri on the command track is not a good idea, let her go...
- For a second I thought you will kill Vaughn (and I liked that thought very much), then I thought you will kill Prynn for real (and I didn't liked that thought very much) and then you rescued them both. Come on!
- You killed the Intendant. You bastards.
- Speaking of South Park, after finishing this book I was thinking about the false "who is Cartman's dad" cliffhanger at the end of first season. At the end of Olympus Descending you dissolved the Dominion and you didn't mention it in Warpath at all. I guess we have to wait for Fearful Symmetry.
Considering everyone's posting in this thread, here's my abbreviated review. Please note that I read "Warpath" in bed while down with the flu, so I might have missed things due to lack of concentration... (Should I still warn for spoilers on page 4?)
First of all, I must admit that I was a bit scared that Warpath might not live up to the high expectations I had of it. Something similar happened with Unity, which I got relatively late as I waited for the paperback, and at that point I was so eager that I must admit the story didn't excite me as much as I'd hoped.
To a degree, I must admit that this also happened with Warpath. The Defiant's hunt of Taran'atar was the main part that sort of let me down a little, as it felt rushed - appropriate for the story perhaps, but I like a little breathing space while I'm reading. The Tenmei/Taran'atar interactions were well executed, and I enjoyed those parts very much. On the other side, Vaughn's quick assumption that Prynn died aboard the Euphrates (there goes another runabout!) was a bit too fast for me. I understand that he's felt he's lost her before - several times actually, during Mission Gamma - and that perhaps he had a "this time it's for real" feeling, but that's the only way I can really explain it. Had I been in Bowers' shoes, I'd probably have wanted a much better explanation to not relieve him of command.
Highlight of the story for me, were the scenes on DS9, from Quark's clear devotion to Ro to Ro's obvious dislike of the Bajorans' love-you/hate-you reaction to Kira because of their faith. Kira's vision made me very interested in seeing what is still to come, and how the relationship between Bajor and the Eav'oq will evolve. I've enjoyed reading about Kira's evolving relationship with the Prophets and with Sisko in his role as Emissary in the past, and I also enjoyed it here. These are the parts of Kira that most define her character, and that was captured very well. (On a completely unrelated side-note, it was nice to see more characters appear, both new and old like Neeley.)
As for the ending, I'm a little shocked that the Intendant snuffed it (and in that way), and I think the "Cardassian Woman" Iliana is a very interesting character. I hope we'll see more of her. I'm also still worried what's gonna become of Taran'atar, because the company he is in now will not be very helpful in his current state of mind, IMHO.
Overall, I found Warpath an interesting read, and I look forward to re-reading it in a little more active mode in the future.
My thanx to both David Mack and Marco!
First of all, I must admit that I was a bit scared that Warpath might not live up to the high expectations I had of it. Something similar happened with Unity, which I got relatively late as I waited for the paperback, and at that point I was so eager that I must admit the story didn't excite me as much as I'd hoped.
To a degree, I must admit that this also happened with Warpath. The Defiant's hunt of Taran'atar was the main part that sort of let me down a little, as it felt rushed - appropriate for the story perhaps, but I like a little breathing space while I'm reading. The Tenmei/Taran'atar interactions were well executed, and I enjoyed those parts very much. On the other side, Vaughn's quick assumption that Prynn died aboard the Euphrates (there goes another runabout!) was a bit too fast for me. I understand that he's felt he's lost her before - several times actually, during Mission Gamma - and that perhaps he had a "this time it's for real" feeling, but that's the only way I can really explain it. Had I been in Bowers' shoes, I'd probably have wanted a much better explanation to not relieve him of command.
Highlight of the story for me, were the scenes on DS9, from Quark's clear devotion to Ro to Ro's obvious dislike of the Bajorans' love-you/hate-you reaction to Kira because of their faith. Kira's vision made me very interested in seeing what is still to come, and how the relationship between Bajor and the Eav'oq will evolve. I've enjoyed reading about Kira's evolving relationship with the Prophets and with Sisko in his role as Emissary in the past, and I also enjoyed it here. These are the parts of Kira that most define her character, and that was captured very well. (On a completely unrelated side-note, it was nice to see more characters appear, both new and old like Neeley.)
As for the ending, I'm a little shocked that the Intendant snuffed it (and in that way), and I think the "Cardassian Woman" Iliana is a very interesting character. I hope we'll see more of her. I'm also still worried what's gonna become of Taran'atar, because the company he is in now will not be very helpful in his current state of mind, IMHO.
Overall, I found Warpath an interesting read, and I look forward to re-reading it in a little more active mode in the future.
My thanx to both David Mack and Marco!
It's the continuation of the DS9 post-finale saga which is about 15 books long by now. Still, each installment is designed to provide enough backstory explanation that you can catch up and still follow what's going on.
Okay, let's review the facts again, shall we?
First of all, Tirius, Vaughn assumed that Prynn was dead long before the Euphrates was destroyed. From his point of view, she had been killed in the explosion of the comet Nahanas, which enabled Taran'atar to escape in the Euphrates after disabling the Defiant.
Keep in mind the way this scenario looked to Vaughn and the Defiant crew:
* They have been tracking and pursuing the runabout, and they know that there is no place along its route that Prynn could have been safely dropped off.
* After tracking the runabout to Nahanas, Prynn's combadge signal is detected on the comet's surface, but various substances in the comet's surface impede a sensor/transporter lock. A thorough scan of the runabout shows no life signs aboard the runabout. It was therefore reasonable to conclude that Prynn was not aboard the Euphrates.
* Defiant lowers its shields and moves to a direct line-of-sight position above the comet to try and beam up Prynn. When they initiate a transporter lock on her com signal, the comet explodes, inflicting serious damage on the Defiant and knocking its primary sensors offline. They barely patch in the backup sensors, and detect only one life sign now aboard the Euphrates -- Taran'atar's. The ship accelerates away and jumps to warp, leaving behind the crippled Defiant.
* Vaughn is able to determine that Taran'atar had shrouded himself (a Jem'Hadar natural ability), which is why he didn't show up on the initial scan of the runabout. But as of when the Euphrates escapes, remember that there is still no life sign for Prynn on the Euphrates. And it is reasonable for Vaughn to conclude that no organic material would have survived intact from the flashpoint of a blast powerful enough to cripple the Defiant; under the circumstances, it would not be unusual for there to be no DNA or other traces of Prynn left -- not that the Defiant's damaged sensors would be accurate enough to detect it anyway.
So what conclusion should Vaughn have drawn? He knew Prynn was on the runabout when it left DS9. He knew there were no safe havens along the runabout's escape route. He knew that he had a lock on her combadge on the comet's surface. He knew there were no human life signs aboard the runabout. And he had every reason to think that Taran'atar, who has already attacked Kira and Ro with potentially deadly force, is not averse to killing people to achieve his objectives.
Vaughn has absolutely every reason to believe, based on the evidence in hand and the circumstances involved, that he has been tricked into killing Prynn as part of Taran'atar's scheme to escape.
^^^ (MORE SPOILERS)
First, apologies for the Euphrates/comet slip-up. I guess I should not have waited three weeks with this review.
Second, if you add it all up like this, it does make more sense yes. I guess my perception has been somewhat clouded by the fact that there have been so many "we think they're dead, but they're really not" situations in the Trek universe (and fiction in general). This creates a degree of anticipation of what is to come, which is of course ill-advised as every story is different from the others. Also, I think I'd have more readily excepted Vaughn's reaction had I as reader not known full well that Prynn was still alive. That is inherent to any story I suppose, that the reader has a different perspective and often has a much better overview of the situation than the characters. Finally, regarding Vaughn, I must also admit that I have no idea how a parent would feel about losing a child, let alone that way. You can never really predict your emotions in extreme situations, can you, so those situations should remain very difficult to judge.
Anywayz, thanx for the clarification. I'll certainly take it along during my second reading. :thumbsup:
First, apologies for the Euphrates/comet slip-up. I guess I should not have waited three weeks with this review.
Second, if you add it all up like this, it does make more sense yes. I guess my perception has been somewhat clouded by the fact that there have been so many "we think they're dead, but they're really not" situations in the Trek universe (and fiction in general). This creates a degree of anticipation of what is to come, which is of course ill-advised as every story is different from the others. Also, I think I'd have more readily excepted Vaughn's reaction had I as reader not known full well that Prynn was still alive. That is inherent to any story I suppose, that the reader has a different perspective and often has a much better overview of the situation than the characters. Finally, regarding Vaughn, I must also admit that I have no idea how a parent would feel about losing a child, let alone that way. You can never really predict your emotions in extreme situations, can you, so those situations should remain very difficult to judge.
Anywayz, thanx for the clarification. I'll certainly take it along during my second reading. :thumbsup:
Not to nitpick, but . . . if you don't mind my asking, how did you know -- not "think," not "suspect," not "believe," but actually know -- that Prynn was not dead? Did you read the end of the book first or something? Because if there's one thing I am renowned for, it's putting characters into their graves.
Well, when Taran'atar pulled her out of the transporter buffer one chapter later, that was a bit of a clue she wasn't quite dead yet...
Except that Vaughn's reaction precedes that revelation, and Tirius claims that his appreciation of Vaughn's reaction was sullied by knowing that Prynn wasn't dead. However, at the point where Vaughn is first hit with the idea that he has killed Prynn, the reader has not yet had it confirmed that she is alive.
Ah, okay... rereading Tirius' post, I see the point you were making. I withdraw my snark.
Yeah, I just thought from the beginning that Taran'atar will use the old transporter buffer trick. And I was right. When I can figure it out myself, I expected Vaughn will do the same. After all, he is a highly experienced veteran who has handled similar issues in the past, right?
^ Aaahh, of course! The ol' transporter buffer trick!
But... no, seriously... for what reason would Vaughn believe that this motherless Jem'Hadar bastard, who had just left Kira and Ro to bleed to death back on the station, would show any greater concern for Prynn? What reason would Vaughn have to think Taran'atar considered her anything more than a piece of bait to sacrifice in an effort to cripple the Defiant?
And what kind of brickheaded idiot would this grizzled veteran of some of the worst of Starfleet history be if, after his only daughter was kidnapped by a murderous madman, and then witnessing her apparent murder, would then think, "Oh, well, maybe this crazy fuck is just playing with my mind, and kept my daughter alive out of the goodness of his hearts"?
I have absolutely no doubt that most of the same people now grumbling about Vaughn jumping to conclusions would, if Dave had Vaughn refusing to believe Prynn dead, would be grumbling even louder about Vaughn's near-psychic leap of logic.
But... no, seriously... for what reason would Vaughn believe that this motherless Jem'Hadar bastard, who had just left Kira and Ro to bleed to death back on the station, would show any greater concern for Prynn? What reason would Vaughn have to think Taran'atar considered her anything more than a piece of bait to sacrifice in an effort to cripple the Defiant?
And what kind of brickheaded idiot would this grizzled veteran of some of the worst of Starfleet history be if, after his only daughter was kidnapped by a murderous madman, and then witnessing her apparent murder, would then think, "Oh, well, maybe this crazy fuck is just playing with my mind, and kept my daughter alive out of the goodness of his hearts"?
I have absolutely no doubt that most of the same people now grumbling about Vaughn jumping to conclusions would, if Dave had Vaughn refusing to believe Prynn dead, would be grumbling even louder about Vaughn's near-psychic leap of logic.
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