Warp drive obsolete?

[CoveTom]

she's clearly the one who made it home early, since NEM takes place in 2379 and Future!Admiral Janeway didn't make it home until 2394.

Crap. Well you just killed Christmas.

You forget STXI's mind-meld flashback to prime-2387. And Spock and Nero's warp ships.

That's true. However, back to what I said about personal continuity and canon not really mattering unless you're producing the next Trek film... I don't consider STXI to be part of the continuity of my Star Trek. Yeah, it's canon, in that it's part of the officially sanctioned universe and must be respected by those producing future works. But I choose to discount it and presume that ALL of it, even the parts supposedly in the "prime" universe, represent a parallel or alternate reality totally separate from the one that came before.

 

[zar]

Janeway saved Romulus.

 

[F. King Daniel]

she's clearly the one who made it home early, since NEM takes place in 2379 and Future!Admiral Janeway didn't make it home until 2394.

Crap. Well you just killed Christmas.

You forget STXI's mind-meld flashback to prime-2387. And Spock and Nero's warp ships.

That's true. However, back to what I said about personal continuity and canon not really mattering unless you're producing the next Trek film... I don't consider STXI to be part of the continuity of my Star Trek. Yeah, it's canon, in that it's part of the officially sanctioned universe and must be respected by those producing future works. But I choose to discount it and presume that ALL of it, even the parts supposedly in the "prime" universe, represent a parallel or alternate reality totally separate from the one that came before.

If you're picking and choosing your own canon, than this discussion is pointless. Decide whatever you want.

 

[Vanyel]

she's clearly the one who made it home early, since NEM takes place in 2379 and Future!Admiral Janeway didn't make it home until 2394.

Crap. Well you just killed Christmas.

You forget STXI's mind-meld flashback to prime-2387. And Spock and Nero's warp ships.

That's true. However, back to what I said about personal continuity and canon not really mattering unless you're producing the next Trek film... I don't consider STXI to be part of the continuity of my Star Trek. Yeah, it's canon, in that it's part of the officially sanctioned universe and must be respected by those producing future works. But I choose to discount it and presume that ALL of it, even the parts supposedly in the "prime" universe, represent a parallel or alternate reality totally separate from the one that came before.

If you're picking and choosing your own canon, than this discussion is pointless. Decide whatever you want.

I took, by what Real Spock told NuSpock (yes my bias is showing), that STXI was a whole new Universe. The other one where TNG, DS9 & VOY still exists. That universe would be dealing with probable collapse of the Romulan Empire and the repercussions of that event. They would also be dealing with the Federation coming up with a new WMD on scale with Genesis, the Red Matter which can create Black Holes.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Nimoy's Spock is supposed to be the same guy, from the same timeline, that we saw from "The Cage" through to STVI and "Unification". Otherwise his cameo and the whole time travel plot is utterly pointless. Therefore his ship and Nero's Narada are from that universe too - and they had warp drive in 2387, long after Voyager returned from the Delta Quadrant.

 

[cwl]

so Voyager comes back from the Delta Quadrant with a great deal of knowledge on faster than warp propulsion and they sit on the technology and do nothing with it?

interesting...

 

[brian577]

so Voyager comes back from the Delta Quadrant with a great deal of knowledge on faster than warp propulsion and they sit on the technology and do nothing with it?

interesting...

Considering how the technology could give them a serious tactical advantage over their enemies the Federation may not want to flash it around.

 

[CoveTom]

If you're picking and choosing your own canon, than this discussion is pointless. Decide whatever you want.

*sigh* Let's try this again, shall we? No one picks and chooses their own "canon" because canon only means what is, according to the studio, an official part of the Star Trek universe and therefore must be adhered to by future writers and producers when making a new Trek production. That's it.

However, as a fan, I'm free to choose my own personal continuity. Why? Because the whole thing is fictional. There's no "right" or "wrong." None of it really did or didn't happen. So if I choose to say that Trek 09 is craptastic and that I don't want to think about it when I'm exploring the Star Trek universe, I can.

 

[captcalhoun]

so Voyager comes back from the Delta Quadrant with a great deal of knowledge on faster than warp propulsion and they sit on the technology and do nothing with it?

interesting...

again, not in the novels. by 2381 Starfleet is building a class of ship equipped with QS drive tech as standard - the Vesta class - whilst at least 3 Merian class science ships, Voyager, the Galen class holographic medical support vessel prototype, the Theophrastus class engineering support vessel Achilles and the Mulciber class support ship Demeter have all been equipped with Q drive tech for the mission to the Delta Quadrant.

the Breen steal the QS plans in Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game and Starfleet sends to special operatives to destroy their prototype and destroy the plans. they were having trouble getting QS to work any way.

 

[Sci]

the Breen steal the QS plans in Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game and Starfleet sends to special operatives to destroy their prototype and destroy the plans.

Which, by the way, made for a really fascinating, and at times quite troubling, John le Carré-esque meditation on the necessity and justification of covert operations.

 

[Deckerd]

Nimoy's Spock is supposed to be the same guy, from the same timeline, that we saw from "The Cage" through to STVI and "Unification". Otherwise his cameo and the whole time travel plot is utterly pointless. Therefore his ship and Nero's Narada are from that universe too - and they had warp drive in 2387, long after Voyager returned from the Delta Quadrant.

Just because the Federation had new technology doesn't mean they share it with everyone else. Also just because there's new technology doesn't mean everyone's going to chuck away their old, perfectly functional warp drives, especially hick miners from the boondocks. Secondly, nobody really knows what Spock's ship was capable of. There's no reason why it couldn't have had a whole bag of tricks including multiple drives.

 

[Timo]

Let's also consider that the Narada wasn't really a cutting edge ship for the 2380s; for all we know, she was built in the 22nd century already, and served generations of the long-lived miners in the Nero family. Her known qualities from the movie were extreme size, lack of speed and total lack of classic TOS or TNG era weaponry - making her rather timeless, because if the only opponents she tackled were asteroids rich in metals, there'd be no reason to upgrade her weapons or engines over time.

Whether Spock's ship had warp or something else, we never really learned. Like said earlier, Spock never outran anybody in his "fastest" ship. But the plot never gave him a chance to do so: he was taken by surprise several times, and in his final "escape attempt" was merely leading Nero on a leash away from Earth. Perhaps Spock Prime never got the chance to press the "hyperwarp" button, and Spock Junior never had the incentive?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deckerd]

I think you more or less said exactly what I said. Now I'm afraid. Channelling Timo is not something to be casual about.

 

[Timo]

OTOH, you are now clearly established as the superior typist, by eight minutes at least.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The_Baroness]

It proves nothing. The Narada is a Romulan mining ship. Even if the Federation HAD shared Quantum Slipstream tech with the empire (and why would they?) it's unlikely to have made it down to their civilian ships for a long time yet.

Same goes for the Jellyfish, it may have been the Vulcan Science academy's 'fastest ship' but not being Starfleet (who are the ones with the Slipstream) theres no reason to assume it would automatically get the tech.

And when we see see the Enterprise E in Nemesis, it may have slipstream and just had no reason to use it (it was going to Romulus, not to the other side of the Delta Quadrant) or, more likely it didn't have it yet. It would hardly be an instantaneous process to roll it out across the fleet, especially when it didn't bloody WORK when Voyager used it.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Nimoy's Spock is supposed to be the same guy, from the same timeline, that we saw from "The Cage" through to STVI and "Unification".

Well, not really. Remember he died and was regenerated. It's splitting hairs, but a potentially relevant point. Probably not, though.

 

[Deckerd]

I like your rank Sean. Scottish understatement at its best.

 

[Timo]

The curious thing is, slipstream and the other super-propulsion methods were far from practical in VOY and could have required a century of more work - but Future Janeway's hull armor was the very definition of practical and applicable. Why was that not used?

The armor tech was specifically established as being highly portable: Janeway could carry it on a memory chip and then have 2370s style shipboard replicators churn out unlimited quantities of working examples. It was shown to be applicable on small shuttles and medium starships alike. It "still" defeated large Klingon combat starships in the 2390s, so it would be of immense value in the 2370s - a decisive factor in battles quite regardless of possible shortcomings, just like the tanks of WWI were decisive despite being utterly impractical.

Modifying of warp drives might be hard work. Installing of futuro-armor would literally only require the pressing of a button.

My only weak excuse here is that since the armor was provided in software form, Futuro-Janeway may have rigged the software to erase itself (and possible copies of itself) after use. That way, Starfleet would only be left with a few physical examples of the tech, and those, too, might have been rigged to shut down and become useless (and near-impossible to reverse-engineer with mere early 2380s tech knowledge) after saving Voyager.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

If you're picking and choosing your own canon, than this discussion is pointless. Decide whatever you want.

*sigh* Let's try this again, shall we? No one picks and chooses their own "canon" because canon only means what is, according to the studio, an official part of the Star Trek universe and therefore must be adhered to by future writers and producers when making a new Trek production. That's it.

I should have said "fanon"

However, as a fan, I'm free to choose my own personal continuity. Why? Because the whole thing is fictional. There's no "right" or "wrong." None of it really did or didn't happen. So if I choose to say that Trek 09 is craptastic and that I don't want to think about it when I'm exploring the Star Trek universe, I can.

That's good for you, but useless when discussing the future of warp drive in the TV/film Trek continuity. Like trying to discuss how way Janeway got home while ignoring "Endgame", or the Enterprise-B while disregarding Generations.

 

[Paradon]

I wonder how they get a metal so dense that even phasers and torpedoes has not effect on it. Maybe it's nutroneum that we so on DS9...the episode with Jem'Hadars trying to kill other defected Jem'Hadars?

Something that dense could only be from a star, probably at the core, or a black hole...if I'm not mistaken.