"Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offshore"

[Greylock Crescent]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Here's a fascinating segment from TV New Zealand, featuring interviews with most of the major interests in the dispute, including Sir Peter Jackson & Phillipa Boyens, CTU President Helen Kelly, and Gerry Brown Lee, NZ's Economic Development Minister.

The interview with Jackson & Boyens was conducted inside an as-yet-completed set of Gollum's cave (demonstrating just how much pre-production work has already taken place in NZ). From the words and the body language, it certainly seems as though Ms. Kelly is spinning a lot of BS. She doesn't even attempt to acknowledge the lack of confidence WB has in NZ's labor environment, much less attempt to allay such fears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoUN2AGxrnA

 

[thumbtack]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

I understand Americans will work for practically nothing.

 

[Reverend]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Here's another tv interview that's been posted (this time from Bag End, no less.) Bloody hell, I thought Jackson looked upset in the other interview, in this one the poor bugger looks like he's on his last nerve!

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

It's a brilliant strategy for Jackson to be doing these interviews from Hobbit sets. For one, it utterly disproves the union's claims that WB was just looking for an excuse to leave NZ -- makes no sense with the level of pre-production work that's been done so far. Secondly, it also sends a subtle message to WB that a lot of work has, in fact, been done and that moving the films out of NZ will cost time, work and money that's already been accounted for.

 

[Reverend]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

As much as I hate to say it, I think it's take a LOT to convince WB to hold fire at this point. No matter what the unions are saying now with their promises to refrain from any further industrial action, their credibility is worth bugger all at the moment.

What it comes down to is what it'd cost to relocate the production against the potential cost if in 8-12 months time the unions decide to play silly buggers again. The former will defiantly cost them some money but it'd solve any long term issues. The latter on the other hand is a potential cost that'll hang over the production like the sword of Damocles. When it comes to $500 million dollar investments, uncertainties like that naturally make the financiers nervous.

 

[AviTrek]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

^ Well, the shame of it isn't that WB is simply moving the production away -- it's in the perception that a handful of malcontents are the root cause of many people missing out on what would have been a tremendous financial boon for NZ. I highly doubt WB would have moved the production had there been smooth sailing in NZ -- business as usual from LOTR. Whether they were just looking for an excuse, and this was it, or if they are legitimately concerned about NZ as a filming location, I honestly don't know. I certainly don't know the details of the dispute, so I've no idea how accurate the perception is to the truth, but the bottom line is that a lot of people, who had nothing to do with the dispute, are getting screwed over. Which kinda sucks, at least for them.

EDIT:
Just read this from theonering.net. No idea what it means in the long term though:

After a tense standoff, a new actors union in New Zealand announced late Wednesday it won’t boycott Peter Jackson’s “The Hobbit,” from New Line/Warner Bros. and MGM. “New Zealand Actors’ Equity and the Screen Production & Development Association (SPADA) have entered into an agreement to commence good faith negotiations for a new set of conditions which will govern the way in which performers are engaged in the local screen industry,” read a statement from the groups. “Talks are to take place over the next six months. As a sign of good faith, while negotiations occur, Equity has agreed that those productions which fully comply with the current guidelines for the engagement of cast in the industry–’The Pink Book”– will not be subject to industrial action,” unions continued.
​

And that is why WB is moving production. They only promise to not block productions while negotiations occur, and they are setting six months for negotiations. If negotiations break down, or if it stretches beyond six months, there are no guarantees they won't strike then. WB has a year long shoot ahead of them. They won't risk a disruption halfway through. Unless the union wants to guarantee no disruptions to productions that begin now, WB would be foolish to start filming.

 

[Sci]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Add this to exhibit A of why unions have outlived their usefulness.

No, add this to Exhibit A of corporate elites seeking to screw their workers over and using the globalized world's lack of barriers to entry to spread their wealth so thin and work in the cheapest possible countries so as to avoid paying their workers a decent wage.

It's just outsourcing and a prime example of a corporate elite trying to fuck the little guy. It's part of Exhibit A on why unions need to be more powerful.

 

[Thestral]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Add this to exhibit A of why unions have outlived their usefulness.

No, add this to Exhibit A of corporate elites seeking to screw their workers over and using the globalized world's lack of barriers to entry to spread their wealth so thin and work in the cheapest possible countries so as to avoid paying their workers a decent wage.

It's just outsourcing and a prime example of a corporate elite trying to fuck the little guy. It's part of Exhibit A on why unions need to be more powerful.

I'm usually on the side of unions, but I think in this case they're in the wrong.

Especially since, from what I can tell, this is a case of a foreign (Australian) union stepping in and exerting its influence over a smaller country's workers.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Add this to exhibit A of why unions have outlived their usefulness.

No, add this to Exhibit A of corporate elites seeking to screw their workers over and using the globalized world's lack of barriers to entry to spread their wealth so thin and work in the cheapest possible countries so as to avoid paying their workers a decent wage.

Except thats not true, the workers there apparently get paid more than their counterparts in California.

 

[Timby]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Add this to exhibit A of why unions have outlived their usefulness.

No, add this to Exhibit A of corporate elites seeking to screw their workers over and using the globalized world's lack of barriers to entry to spread their wealth so thin and work in the cheapest possible countries so as to avoid paying their workers a decent wage.

It's just outsourcing and a prime example of a corporate elite trying to fuck the little guy. It's part of Exhibit A on why unions need to be more powerful.

Outsourcing? This whole thing was an MEAA power play from the beginning. The New Zealand Actor's Equity is actually controlled by an Australian firm. The union itself represents a small fraction of the actual actors in New Zealand. They are holding the location of the movies hostage as a power play to obtain a larger equity in the New Zealand film industry.

So, to sum it up:

- MEAA tried to get The Hobbit's producers to agree to a collective bargaining agreement, despite that being highly illegal under New Zealand law.
- They sought industry-wide reform by targeting a very specific production.
- They blackballed a location shoot that would've brought millions of dollars to the New Zealand economy.
- They said they weren't boycotting the shoot, despite the MEAA issuing a press release saying as much.
- They said they weren't looking for collective bargaining agreements, despite the MEAA saying as much.
- The MEAA admitted to doing this solely to unionize all New Zealand film productions.
- They canceled a mutually agreed-upon negotiation meeting because they didn't want to face up to the producers sick of their bullshit. (That was the final straw.)
- They said that Jackson's statement is irrelevant because it was all about taxes anyway, despite the likelihood that Warner would've left long ago if it were a simple matter of tax rebates.
- And despite all this, they still don't actually know what they want.

Another major part of the MEAA's incompetence - perhaps the most destructive of them all - is the timing. They saw The Hobbit as a project that would be inevitably filmed in New Zealand, and so they probably thought this was the high publicity, high pay scale opportunity. They thought their stipulations would have to be addressed.

The problem with this, and the aspect they didn't take into account, was that this project has already been delayed drastically, has had arguably the best fantasy director in the world walk away from the project and has cost untold millions of dollars that need to be paid sooner than later. Peter Jackson was done playing political games months ago and then the MEAA decided that they'd start fucking around, when based on the history of the project they chose the worst possible time to try to leverage their services.

It's a complete clusterfuck, and MEAA is almost entirely responsible for it.

 

[Captain Craig]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Add this to exhibit A of why unions have outlived their usefulness.

No, add this to Exhibit A of corporate elites seeking to screw their workers over and using the globalized world's lack of barriers to entry to spread their wealth so thin and work in the cheapest possible countries so as to avoid paying their workers a decent wage.

It's just outsourcing and a prime example of a corporate elite trying to fuck the little guy. It's part of Exhibit A on why unions need to be more powerful.

Unions are already too powerful. Thier massive influence and influx of money helped put a weak President in the US Oval Office.

Not only are you and I going to disagree on unions but reading this thread others do as well. I won't try to convince you otherwise.

This situation is the unions fault, pure and simple. Their word is, as another said 'buggers' from here on out.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Add this to exhibit A of why unions have outlived their usefulness.

No, add this to Exhibit A of corporate elites seeking to screw their workers over and using the globalized world's lack of barriers to entry to spread their wealth so thin and work in the cheapest possible countries so as to avoid paying their workers a decent wage.

It's just outsourcing and a prime example of a corporate elite trying to fuck the little guy. It's part of Exhibit A on why unions need to be more powerful.

I'm usually on the side of unions, but I think in this case they're in the wrong.

Especially since, from what I can tell, this is a case of a foreign (Australian) union stepping in and exerting its influence over a smaller country's workers.

I'm with you. If I thought this was about ripping off poorly paid workers or taking liberties with safety issues etc (Brandon Lee was killed on a union-free set), I'd have every sympathy with the union. But I think that their play here was totally misjudged and ill-founded.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Add this to exhibit A of why unions have outlived their usefulness.

No, add this to Exhibit A of corporate elites seeking to screw their workers over and using the globalized world's lack of barriers to entry to spread their wealth so thin and work in the cheapest possible countries so as to avoid paying their workers a decent wage.

It's just outsourcing and a prime example of a corporate elite trying to fuck the little guy. It's part of Exhibit A on why unions need to be more powerful.

This doesn't add to anything other than the fact that unions are not infallible. No surprise there. In this case, the incompetence of a few leaders has caused harm for everyone, including the constituents they claim to represent. But using this one case to paint either unions or corporations in general with a broader brush is myopic.

 

[Sci]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

- The MEAA admitted to doing this solely to unionize all New Zealand film productions.

All film productions should be unionized.

 

[Tulin]

NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoUN2AGxrnA

Just saw this on AICN.

Poor PJ looks not only majorly pissed off, he actually looks sick and pale. He constantly butts in on Phillippa, trying to get his point across.

Oh and you gotta love the govt. minister who doesn't know if he's still on the air and tries to get back into the conversation.

This thing is going to hell in a handbasket and is becoming almost impossible to follow anymore. All I know is unless something is resolved soon, poor PJ is going to have a stroke.

 

[Thestral]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

- The MEAA admitted to doing this solely to unionize all New Zealand film productions.

All film productions should be unionized.

You know, whether or not this is true, you seem to be ignoring his point that this is a power play being made by an Australian union into New Zealand affairs. Aren't you the guy that's all about larger more powerful nations not assuming hegemony over smaller ones?

 

[Candlelight]

Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

Oh and you gotta love the govt. minister who doesn't know if he's still on the air and tries to get back into the conversation.

No, that's just Mark Sainbury and how lousy Close Up has become in recently times.

 

[Skywalker]

Re: "Warners are coming down to New Zealand to move [The Hobbit] offsh

Outsourcing? This whole thing was an MEAA power play from the beginning. The New Zealand Actor's Equity is actually controlled by an Australian firm. The union itself represents a small fraction of the actual actors in New Zealand. They are holding the location of the movies hostage as a power play to obtain a larger equity in the New Zealand film industry.

(snip)

Excellent post. I hope PJ and company are able to convince Warners to stay in New Zealand, but it's looking more and more likely that they're going to move the production elsewhere. Which is a shame, because this whole mess has done a lot of damage to the reputation of New Zealand's film industry. All because of politics and a foreign union trying to muscle in where they don't belong.

 

[Skywalker]

Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

That interviewer was terrible, constantly interrupting the interviewees and trying to turn their words against them to make them look bad. Not that Hellen Kelly (I think that's her name) needed the help.

And yeah, PJ looked pretty rough there. If this stuff goes on much longer, he could play Gollum.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: NZ TV Interview - PJ is PISSED OFF!!!!!!

Just finished watching it. Yeah it's a pretty intense situation over there....and you can hear the frustration and passion in Peter's voice when he talked. I think ultimately that this won't get resolved and if they want the production to continue that they'll have to move which would suck since New Zealand is Middle Earth.