Warner bros announce superhero films through 2020
- Thread starter JoeZhang
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"Wow. That is terrible advice. I always have a plan, down to the second, so nothing ever goes wrong. " -- Leo Snart, or possibly Kevin Feige
But WB DOES have a plan. Whenever a new DC movie is poorly reviewed they scramble to fix the next movie and end up screwing it up.
MoS didn't make enough money so we never got a MoS sequel and instead WB rushed to make a crossover movie with Batman. When BvS failed with critics for being too grimdark and incoherent, WB scrambled and got a trailer company to edit SS into the mess that we got, and WB also forced JL to be under two hours and make it as much of a messy live action cartoon as possible.
One word describes WB's treatment of its DC movies perfectly, reactionary.
MoS didn't make enough money so we never got a MoS sequel and instead WB rushed to make a crossover movie with Batman. When BvS failed with critics for being too grimdark and incoherent, WB scrambled and got a trailer company to edit SS into the mess that we got, and WB also forced JL to be under two hours and make it as much of a messy live action cartoon as possible.
One word describes WB's treatment of its DC movies perfectly, reactionary.
You'd think they'd react to making a good movie with Wonder Woman by simply making more good movies
If classic Zatanna doesn't work in the movie, don't put her in the movie. She already became a second stringer in the actual JLD comic and animated movie, becoming subservient to John Constantine because the writer really, really loves the character, to the point where Zatanna basically lost her spot as top magician in the DCU just so that the female hero could be subservient to the male one (the JLD animated movie does this to such an extreme it is almost physically painful as a Zatanna fan). I honestly think she can work in a dark movie as is (why does "dark" have to mean "dress like a moody asshole?"), but JLD shouldn't be dark/gritty in the way she wouldn't work anyway.
A movie could be dark in the way Guillermo del Toro does dark yet fit classic Zatanna in perfectly (it really sucks that he didn't end up making JL Dark). Imagine a movie with a similar tone to Hellboy, that could get dark but she could fit a film like that very well. She's been in plenty of less colorful stories and worked. Dressing like a stage magician doesn't mean she can only be included in Silver Age style stuff. Any darker and, really, why even make the damn movie? I mean, I get it. DC films generally hate anything that isn't both joyless and lifeless. But Pre-New 52 Zatanna could fit in a dark fantasy movie very well with no changes to attire or personality.
As for having baron Mordo play Jason Blood (he looked familiar but I didn't know his name so I googled it), when it comes to major heroes I go for comic authenticity most of the time. Jason Blood is pretty well established, in look and backstory and while you can fudge it I think the classic version works a lot better. But hell, cast that guy or someone like Idris Elba as John constantine and I'd support that all the way (since I LOATHE the character of Constantine but like Idris Elba that would balance out the character for me, and I'm sure the other guy would be fine as well based off his performance as Mordo). It all comes down to which character we're talking about. Some can be changed with pretty much no consequence (being an asshole British con man/sorcerer really has not limits when it comes to casting). Some, I think, work better playing to the comic version.
Indeed. And as JMS showed us with Babylon 5, you can set up a plan that can adapt as circumstances change (though more time the better....season 5!).
The DC F U did NOT need a long term villain or plot like the Inifinity Stones...just enough for this to feel like a connected universe, just like the past 75 years of comics
A costume or appearance does not make a character, you can change everything about a character's look, but keep their backstory, personality, and abilities intact. I understand the idea behind Zatanna's costume, and there's no reason that idea can't be changed to something like her New 52 costume, or the costume from this concept art.
As for Jason Blood is there some specific reason that he can't be black besides the whole Camelot thing? What exactly about him can't be work with a person of color?
There is no reason to change her original costume. Absolutely none. If a story can't handle classic Zatanna, it shouldn't use the damn character. A good story can easily work with classic Zatanna regardless of how dark it is. She is a classic stage magician, but with real magic. If some writer or director can't handle that, they sure as hell shouldn't be using her. Its not really that hard to use classic zatanna, literally every really good Zatanna story in her entire history was with classic Zatanna (yeah she had a few costume variations pre-2011, but weird snake looking hairband Zatanna from the 80s Justice League comics doesn't exactly rate as her best stories).
That Zatanna from the JLD pics is basically a fant4stic style Zatanna. Someone embarassed by the character tries to make them "hip"m, when being hip and edgy goes against the core concept of the character. but, this argument is pointless. the hack that made (or at least commissioned) those images will never get to make JLD, and hopefully no one will ever adapt that insulting, legitimately offensive pile of shit comic to any medium ever again.
But changing her costume changes none of the stuff you're talking about. You can still have literally every other aspect of classic Zatanna in a different costume, as far as I know none of her personality, powers, or backstory are connected to that one exact costume.
A person is a lot more than the clothes they where.
A person is a lot more than the clothes they where.
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Well, hard to be a classic stage magician if you're dressed like an edgelord idiot. Its like arguing that Superman could work fine wearing Borat's swimsuit. Yeah, technically it might not change the character, but it definitely takes away from them and and is just a pointless, really stupid change. Actually for Zatanna its worse then that, since being a classic stage magician she needs to wear her actual costume. Even DC Comics realized that, with Rebirth bringing back something more like her old costume (with a shittier design admittedly, but it has the top hat and fishnets magician look just slightly more superheroish then stage performer).
There is no reason to change the costume, and the costume is exactly what it needs to be for both her non-superhero profession and her family history. Luckily we'll almost certainly never have to see the Criss Angel Zatanna ever again, so its really not an issue. She's back to being an actual master magician and not just Constantine's powerful but mostly talentless friend with benefits (seriously ,Zatanna's role in the shitty JLD comic was half about her being Constantine's inferior and half about how they occasionally screw).
At the very least, they're competently directed and photographed. And in some cases, like Man of Steel and BvS, they're fucking gorgeous.
And to add to the confusion about whether Ben Affleck will stay on as Batman, he still wants to direct a Batman solo film.
Exactly so.
There is also a kind of inner contradiction or paradox in the way that Marvel and DC superheroes have been treated for many decades, and it carries through to a great degree in the approach of the two movie series:
- Marvel characters are very much part of the modern world; they affect and are affected by social and political events that are changed by the fact that they exist. And yet, to a great extent the public views them as celebrities, if anything, rather than otherwise culturally dominating figures - possible exception of Captain America. Tony Stark is a good deal more important than Iron Man. Characters like Spider-Man are tabloid fodder.
- Characters like Superman, Wonder Woman, or Batman are icons of a sort, widely treated as if they stand for and represent important values. And yet even now for the most part they leave no footprints. Here, Batman is the most likely exception. But I mean, Green Lantern is the local rep for an intergalactic civilization, people know that...and no one really very much seems to care most of the time.
Marvel's approach is pretty clearly the more accessible and successful; it's less ponderous and keeps the characters humanly grounded.
If we have an Elseworlds Joker movie, might as well re-add Ben Affleck's Elseworlds Batman to the roster...
Sounds like Michael Bay.
Gorgeous is great for a painting or photograph, but movies need a bit more than that to fire on all cylinders.
Well, plots and stories that make sense would be things that one would think people who pony up for commercial movies would want.
But, perhaps not, in the 21st century...because Marvel movies are pretty much fails on those points. So, of course, are DC movies. Oh, and Transformer movies. And....
IMO Marvel movies follow the rules that they set for themselves better than DC movies do. And the DC movies have beautifully shot individual scenes, but the editing is the worst I've ever seen in any major movie with us jumping around scene to scene in the most jarring of ways. And Snyder's colors - ugh. I don't know ANYONE that likes him color palette.
That's a surprise, I figured he had given up.