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Warner bros announce superhero films through 2020

Hopefully this will be a good thing. I think having Feig in charge has been a big factor of what's made Marvel Studios' stuff so good, so hopefully these guys can do for DC what he's done for Marvel. I trust Johns, and when they were talking about someone taking on a Feig type role for DC I was hoping it would be him. Not really familiar with Berg, but Suicide Squad looks like it will be great, and they're saying good things about Wonder Woman, so that might be a good sign.
 
It's about time.

Geoff Johns being given the "Kevin Feige" role at DC Films is probably the best thing to happen to the DCEU since... well, ever. This should have happened before Man of Steel, but alas. According to rumors, he was instrumental in Suicide Squad getting major reshoots in the third act, so it sounds like WB is giving Johns the promotion he deserves. It's also smart to have someone like Jon Berg who understands the film side of things co-helming this. He'll have the film foresight Johns doesn't currently have, but will soon.

It's funny. Prior to Batman v Superman, Zack Snyder was being touted as the "Feige"-esque figure for the DCEU since he has an executive producer role on Wonder Woman & The Flash. That has now changed. Mark my words: It's only a matter of time before Snyder exits the DCEU altogether. If Justice League under performs, you can be guaranteed someone else will be directing Part II, if he doesn't get sacked before then.

I have this very sneaky suspicion Justice League: Part I will be the last Zack Snyder-directed DCEU movie.
 
Hopefully with Johns, Berg, and Affleck involved they can keep at least the worst of the Snyderness at under control for Justice Leauge Pt. 1.
 
Larry Fong (cinematographer of Watchmen & Batman v Superman) was replaced on Justice League: Part I, probably in an attempt to brighten up the visual palate.

I think that was a bad move - a director's relationship with his DP is very integral to the filmmaking process, so teaming up Snyder with someone he's never worked with before could mean mixed results - but it clearly shows WB is trying to shake things up. I think if anyone needed to be sacked from BvS besides Snyder & Goyer, it should have been David Brenner (the editor) but he's still editing JLA: Part I. I wonder if WB gave Snyder an ultimatum: replace the DP or editor and maybe Snyder chose Brenner instead of Fong.

At least David Goyer will be nowhere to be found on Justice League.
 
This is promising news, though it'd be better if they could drop Snyder altogether. If the elevated role for Johns means that the movies will end up run similarly to the Berlantiverse shows, that could turn out well. I know that not all comics fans are happy with Johns's creative preferences -- I gather there's a sentiment that he tends to favor nostalgia and old-school characters at the expense of newer characters and ideas -- but for TV and film projects, that might not be such a bad thing, if it means the adaptations are truer to the spirit of what they're adapting.

Another heartening thing in the THR article, unrelated to DC movies, is the diversity in their roster of "genre stream" execs. Both the fantasy (Lego/J.K. Rowling) stream and the sci-fi/action stream (aside from DC) are in female hands, respectively Courtenay Valenti and Niija Kuykendall, and Kuykendall is African-American. Hopefully that bodes well for greater gender and ethnic diversity in future genre films, both in starring roles and lead creative roles.
 
So, if this is "fallout" from all the "failure" and "disappointment" and "vexation" of BvS... why is Jon Berg still there? You know, the guy who was already in charge of the movies including BvS? Why didn't they just fire that guy, the source of all this "failure" and "vexation" and angst that's supposed to be happening? Putting him at the top of a dedicated division, albeit one he's "co-running" with Johns, sounds curiously like the behaviour of a studio trying to *capitalize* on the *success* of a movie.
 
So, if this is "fallout" from all the "failure" and "disappointment" and "vexation" of BvS... why is Jon Berg still there? You know, the guy who was already in charge of the movies including BvS? Why didn't they just fire that guy, the source of all this "failure" and "vexation" and angst that's supposed to be happening? Putting him at the top of a dedicated division, albeit one he's "co-running" with Johns, sounds curiously like the behaviour of a studio trying to *capitalize* on the *success* of a movie.
Well the title of the article is more than a tad disingenuous. This move is part of a larger organizational restructuring caused by an overall lack of financial and critical success, instead of a move that that is a reaction to Batman vs Superman not making as much money as they would have liked.

Look at WB's big name films from last year.

Jupiter Ascending
Pan
The Man From UNCLE
San Andreas
Mad Max Fury Road

WB hasn't had the most stellar track record recently. This article talks about WB seemingly coming in last place compared to other studios last year.
http://www.thewrap.com/hollywood-slugger-warner-bros-strikes-out-at-2015-box-office/

Compared to Universal with the Jurassic World and Fast and Furious movies. And Disney with Marvel, Star Wars and their animated IPs.
 
So, if this is "fallout" from all the "failure" and "disappointment" and "vexation" of BvS... why is Jon Berg still there? You know, the guy who was already in charge of the movies including BvS? Why didn't they just fire that guy, the source of all this "failure" and "vexation" and angst that's supposed to be happening? Putting him at the top of a dedicated division, albeit one he's "co-running" with Johns, sounds curiously like the behaviour of a studio trying to *capitalize* on the *success* of a movie.
Because it doesn't support the "Snyder's movies are epic failures" narrative so many are desperate to push.
 
So, if this is "fallout" from all the "failure" and "disappointment" and "vexation" of BvS... why is Jon Berg still there? You know, the guy who was already in charge of the movies including BvS? Why didn't they just fire that guy, the source of all this "failure" and "vexation" and angst that's supposed to be happening? Putting him at the top of a dedicated division, albeit one he's "co-running" with Johns, sounds curiously like the behaviour of a studio trying to *capitalize* on the *success* of a movie.

Wow, that's a lot of scare quotes.

Firing people is not the only way to address problems. And every person in the film industry has worked on failed films. Success is a hard thing to achieve, so if everyone in the industry were blacklisted after a single failure, they'd quicky run out of people. And Berg isn't just a hired gun on one or two films, he's a senior executive who's overseeing multiple films. He's probably too important to fire. And the article says he's a "conduit" to Ben Affleck, whose involvement with the DCEU is considered a major asset.

Keep in mind that most every production has two different, symbiotic categories of producers -- the ones who focus on the creative side and the ones who focus on the business side. It sounds like Berg is in the latter category, and that the original plan was to have Snyder be the main guiding force on the creative side. Apparently they've shifted the creative responsibility off Snyder and onto Johns. It's comparable to a TV show getting a new showrunner while the executive producers on the business side of the production remain.
 
I think what happens with Zack Snyder is going to mirror what happened with Tim Burton & Batman. Initial success followed by the studio loosening the reins - only to find out that he got lucky at the right time/right place and doesn't fit. This time they probably won't go the other way too far like with Batman & Robin. Surely they're paying attention to the Marvel middle-of-the-road formula.
 
Hopefully when Superman comes back, it'll be with a sunnier outlook on life. I do feel much better about Johns's view of the character than Snyder's -- or Singer's, for that matter. No more making Superman this distant, rarefied force -- he's just a small-town boy trying to be a good neighbor and balance two jobs.
 
Hopefully when Superman comes back, it'll be with a sunnier outlook on life. I do feel much better about Johns's view of the character than Snyder's -- or Singer's, for that matter. No more making Superman this distant, rarefied force -- he's just a small-town boy trying to be a good neighbor and balance two jobs.
How limiting and boring. Yes, he is often portrayed that way but that is in no way the ONLY way to do so. Moreover, we've had that version so often that both Singer and Snyder have offered a version, neither without flaws of course, that are automatically interesting just for the fact he's not "just a small-town boy trying to be a good neighbor and balance two jobs". One can certainly create an interesting story with that foundation but it hardly constitutes the only legitimate way to approach the character. And given the overwhelming preponderance of "small-town boy" versions across all media, it's refreshing to see a version that is deliberately NOT like that. Doesn't always work (some comics versions that step out of the box haven't "done it" for me the way the Snyder version doesn't please everyone) but I applaud even the ones I consider failures for at least trying something different. And haven't I seen it argued in these fora that the beauty of adapting characters and stories from one medium to another lies in the freedom to explore new approaches? I'm sure I've read that around here somewhere.
 
Hopefully when Superman comes back, it'll be with a sunnier outlook on life. I do feel much better about Johns's view of the character than Snyder's -- or Singer's, for that matter. No more making Superman this distant, rarefied force -- he's just a small-town boy trying to be a good neighbor and balance two jobs.
Exactly. Exactly what Superman is supposed to be.
 
One can certainly create an interesting story with that foundation but it hardly constitutes the only legitimate way to approach the character.

But if one can tell an interesting story AND keep the foundation, why not make everybody happy and take that route? More money for the studios and more smiles in the audience isn't a bad thing.

Doesn't always work (some comics versions that step out of the box haven't "done it" for me the way the Snyder version doesn't please everyone) but I applaud even the ones I consider failures for at least trying something different.

Good thing not everybody applaudes failures. If that were the case, we'd have Steel 2, Catwoman 2 and they'd be rushing through the next Fantastic Four movie.

I'm happy to applaud only successes so that the studios know to keep making those. Encouraging failure in the studio system helps nobody. Trying something different and succeeding should be what we applaud loudest, in fact.
 
Hopefully when Superman comes back, it'll be with a sunnier outlook on life. I do feel much better about Johns's view of the character than Snyder's -- or Singer's, for that matter. No more making Superman this distant, rarefied force -- he's just a small-town boy trying to be a good neighbor and balance two jobs.
Exactly. Exactly what Superman is supposed to be.
I'll settle for "likable".
 
I'd settle for a direction for the character and another Superman movie. Both of which, he doesn't seem to be getting anytime soon.
 
So, if this is "fallout" from all the "failure" and "disappointment" and "vexation" of BvS... why is Jon Berg still there? You know, the guy who was already in charge of the movies including BvS?
Possibly because, like the other executives, he deferred to Snyder and Goyer's vision, and that the top brass now thinks that that vision, rather than Berg's producing abilities, is the problem... ?

Oh, hell, I give up. You've caught us. We're all part of a massive conspiracy to spin BvS as a domestic underperformer whose critical reception bodes ill for future Synder/DC movies, a conspiracy that goes right up to and includes career entertainment reporters. And we would've gotten away with it, too, if not for your vigilant observation that not every single producer involved with the DCEU so far has been fired! Curse your meddlesome insight and bravery! :rommie:
 
But if one can tell an interesting story AND keep the foundation, why not make everybody happy and take that route? More money for the studios and more smiles in the audience isn't a bad thing.
Because the audience isn't entitled to "happy" from a creative endeavour and creative artists in any field (music, film, sculpture, literature, etc.) should not be obliged to follow a formula. If the, in this case filmmakers, artist chooses to go the traditional route because that's the approach they think best expresses their creative impulses--perfectly fine. However, if they think a different take is the way to go, that too is perfectly fine. The audience isn't owed satisfaction (nor is the artist owed acclaim). It's owed a movie in exchange for a ticket purchase. The artist owes the film. That's it. Shackling artists to a formula is a recipe for blandness, in the aggregate.

As to applauding failed attempts, I don't applaud them for failing, I applaud them for trying something different. I will never fault anyone for trying something new. Art, in all its forms, would be tragically diminished if people didn't dare to defy expectations and challenge audiences, even at the risk of disappointing that audience.
 
You're giving superhero movies too much credit.
They're not made to be art. They're made to make money.
These aren't tiny indie films. These are summer tentpole blockbusters. The only purpose is to break 1 billion at the box office now.

The creative shakeups only prove this.
 
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