Wait... was TNG racist?

[indolover]

Many of the major Klingon characters were played by non-blacks, including:

- Kor
- Kang
- Koloth
- Gowron
- Martok
- B'Elanna
- Alexander
- K'Helyr
- K'Empek
- Duras
- Lursa
- B'Etor

Most of these actors are/were white, and Roxann Dawson is Hispanic. The only real exception is probably Worf/Michael Dorn, as well as Kurn/Tony Todd. The argument that black actors are cast as Klingons due to racism is unfounded and baseless.

 

[indolover]

If anything, Trek has placed black characters in prominent positions aboard starships and stations.

Sisko was a CO of a station, the major religious figure in an entire species' religious beliefs, made essential first contact with the Federation's most deadly enemy ever, and was arguably the major player (from a UFP angle) in the subsequent war. Is that a small fry role for a black man?

Geordi was chief engineer on the Starfleet flagship. Uhura was a trusted officer under Kirk, the legendary Starfleet captain of his day, and perhaps ever in Starfleet history.

But no, in the 24th century, black people are only there to act as janitors.

 

[YARN]

Yes, it was racist.

Humans were a depicted as a superior race on Star Trek.

Other races were very often reduced to one stereotypical defining aspect. Vulcans are logical. Ferengi are money grubbers. Klingons are warlike. The Edo are simple horny folk. And so on.

Humans, by contrast, were depicted as being part of a well-balanced breakfast (in terms of socio-psychological balance). Alien races were typically lopsided by one defining characteristic.

The human-dominated colonial expedition force of Starfleet was depicted as more culturally advanced than these alien cultures. Starfleet would attempt to help these aliens grow past their lopsided characteristic so as to become more fully human (they were talking "human rights," after all, and not "sentient rights").

When they encountered more advanced species, we discovered that humans were getting close to becoming a God-like super-species themselves. On TOS, at least, it was understood that humanity still had a lot of brutality to deal with. On TNG, however, they had arrived as a people. Q gave humans a hard time, however, we learned that his motivation was that humans were social climbers on the ontological ladder of "higher life" and he felt threatened by their assencion. Q had to grudgingly tolerate this truth where other advanced aliens would usually give an approving wink and nod at humanity's growth at the end of the episode.

 

[Ghrakh]

TNG was responsible for the Ferengi-- who are probably the most blatantly racist creation in all of Star Trek.

But I don't think that, or any other smattering of examples you may find, are enough to qualify the show as being "generally racist."

"The Ferengi are racist"? Really? To people with big ears? I just don't get it. Obviously people can see what they like in anything.

Yep, I never got the Ferengi = Jew. What, do they behave like some people's stererotype of Jewish people or something? I saw them simply as merchant traders, or maybe carpetbaggers.

Something I see on here time and again is "Code Of Honor... Racist... planet full of stupid black people..". Would it have been racist had the planet been filled with stupid white people? Was it racist when the first Europeans landed in West Africa and found a land full of *shock* black people? If someone is stupid it is because they are stupid, not because they are black or white.

While I agree, maybe the issue was that they were the only all-black humanoid race on TNG afiak, so in that sense it was ill-advised.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I think someone said somewhere that giving the Ferengi big ears was akin to Jewish people's stereotypical big noses.
Just sayin'

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The basic approach of Star Trek to characterization of so-called "nonhumans" has become unintentionally racist over the decades. This results from the superficial species=nationality=race shorthand that the Franchise uses in storytelling.

 

[Vurok]

The idea that TNG is racist is nonsense.

I think someone said somewhere that giving the Ferengi big ears was akin to Jewish people's stereotypical big noses.
Just sayin'

The Ferengi were not introduced to portray stereotypical "Jews" they were introduced to allow the writers to make ad-hominem attacks on capitalist strawmen based on Left-wing misrepresentations of an economic system. The fact that they looked ludicrous meant they were not able to maintain them as a serious enemy, so the writers had to be content to use them for infrequent sniping against the capitalist system.

 

[sbk1234]

Agreed. In TOS episode The Savage Curtain, Uhura makes a nice point in saying how in their day, people no longer fear words. I think this points to an over-all less paranoid culture where people are not looking to find problems. The truth is institutionalized bigotry, such as the Jim Crow laws of the Southern United States weren't that long ago. Racism still exists elsewhere. I can understand the paranoia. I, myself, a member of a minority group, have often wondered if I'm seeing bogotry toward me in daily situations. I realize that most of this - if not all - is my second-guessing other people's actions/words towards me. Is that person who's being rude to me a racist, or just an asshole?
We do need to learn to not be paranoid, and only react to issues of real racisim.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

The episode "Code of Honor" was racist, but TNG as a whole was not.

 

[Cyke101]

the last thing I'd want when people say post-racial is a purely homogenous society. When I say post-racial, I mean knowing there are differences, acknowledging them, and learning and celebrating with it. Even tolerance isn't enough because the word tolerance implies that there's something one would have to get over despite discomfort. What we see is just is, nothing bad about it.

Spot on. We have an analogy in the UK about salad bowls and melting pots. Have you heard of this? It is generally accepted that the salad bowl option is the better as this recognises and celebrates our different cultures and traditions, rather than homogenising them.

I haven't heard of the salad bowl comparison before, but 'salad bowl' and 'melting pot' are analogous to the concepts of integration and assimilation, respectively. (The third option is the version of multiculturalism in which, while there are multiple cultures in the society, the cultures don't mix, everyone keeps to themselves.)

Maybe this could be the third option?

The casting was slightly racist in that ethnicity other than caucasian and afro-carribean were relatively rare, which isn't very representative of the world.

Yep, and even then I'd argue that this still falls under the category of being a product of its time. A number of Asian actors (and some discussion on this board) note that seeing Asian actors on screen inspires more Asians to become actors, in a growing pattern of exposure. That pattern had to start somewhere, but it also means that the talent pool of 20 years ago wouldn't be as diverse as it is today. The lack of minorities 20 years ago may be a form of unrecognized and unintentional racism, but it also shows a process of growth. One step at a time, I think.

It's funny that you mention the casting call sheet, too. We'd be in a whole lot more trouble right now if the casting sheets said "seeking only Caucasian" or "seeking only Black" actors for certain roles. It's really surprising that a 20+ yr old show could have any race audition for the major roles (Yaphet Kotto as Picard would have been interesting), but in this day and age the casting sheets for The Last Airbender specify primarily Caucasians for their heroes. How did we go backwards since TNG?

 

[Nardpuncher]

I was expecting the Salad Spinner!
Indiscriminately cutting up all races and blending them together.

 

[Cyke101]

I was expecting the Salad Spinner!
Indiscriminately cutting up all races and blending them together.

Isn't that the Slap Chop these days?

 

[Vurok]

The casting was slightly racist in that ethnicity other than caucasian and afro-carribean were relatively rare, which isn't very representative of the world.

The show was made in the US. There may be a billion Chinese in the world, but they live on the other side of the world.

 

[Praxius]

Was just having a convo with a friend on twitter when she threw out that TNG was racist. I asked her to back that statement up (because I guess I figured that TNG was very much not racist) and she said:

The manner in which they represent the races is cliched and borders on offensive = racism e.g. Geordie : african "blindman" cliche, Worf : primal, sexual, aggressive, struggles to control himself.

I guess I can kind of see the Worf thing (although he's meant to be an alien!), but Geordi, a cliche? Really? I've never heard this before, I always saw Geordi as very much removed from a cliched black man.

Is there such a thing as an 'African Blind Man' cliche? And if so, do you think Geordi was an example of that? Has Burton ever commented on the character in this light? Would be interested hearing any thoughts on this, be they pro or con.

If it's someone playing an alien or disabled person, and their not white, then it's racism? It's completely fk'n stupid if you ask me (which I suppose you did)

What about all the disabled white people or the white actors who play different aliens with certain hangups, or problems similar to what Geordi and Worf were, etc.?

Newsflash for your "Friend"...... not all klingons are played by black actors, in fact most of them are white, yet black or white, they all play the same style & characteristics of that species.

Oh but since LaForge was born blind, it's racist?

Even though LaForge actually has superior vision to that of a human, he's the damn chief engineer of the ship, both his parents are successful starfleet officers..... oh wait, later on his mother reportedly died.... I suppose him having a parent die is racist too?

Haven forbid a black person has a parent die like every other human in existence.

I suppose your friend didn't realize that Star Trek/Gene Roddenberry was the first to actually cast a real life black person as a main character of a daytime show in the 60's, which helped break the color barrier of that time when it came to african americans being on tv?

I tell you, the ignorance of some people......

If they can dig up one fault in the character, and the actor playing that character isn't white, it's got to be racist.

ffs, where's my stupid stick.... somebody needs a good thwap.

 

[Harvey]

The casting was slightly racist in that ethnicity other than caucasian and afro-carribean were relatively rare, which isn't very representative of the world.

The show was made in the US. There may be a billion Chinese in the world, but they live on the other side of the world.

So...Los Angeles is a predominantly white community, then? Which is not to single out the Star Trek franchise, which has probably been better than Hollywood casting trends on the whole, but still.

 

[Praxius]

I think someone said somewhere that giving the Ferengi big ears was akin to Jewish people's stereotypical big noses.
Just sayin'

The Ferengi were originally designed prior to them being primarily focused on as a profit driven species and were supposed to replace the Klingons as the next big bad aliens to challenge the federation.

On top of that:
http://www.ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/tng_12.php

^ Check out some of the early concept art of the Ferengi.

One could argue that trying to claim that the Ferengi were representative to Jewish people due to their stereo-typed big ears/noses and lust for profit is racist against Jewish people by suggesting they're all driven by profit and all have big noses..... so who's really the racist?

 

[RAMA]

Was just having a convo with a friend on twitter when she threw out that TNG was racist. I asked her to back that statement up (because I guess I figured that TNG was very much not racist) and she said:

The manner in which they represent the races is cliched and borders on offensive = racism e.g. Geordie : african "blindman" cliche, Worf : primal, sexual, aggressive, struggles to control himself.

I guess I can kind of see the Worf thing (although he's meant to be an alien!), but Geordi, a cliche? Really? I've never heard this before, I always saw Geordi as very much removed from a cliched black man.

Is there such a thing as an 'African Blind Man' cliche? And if so, do you think Geordi was an example of that? Has Burton ever commented on the character in this light? Would be interested hearing any thoughts on this, be they pro or con.

The idea is off base either way, as Klingons were based originally on the Chinese "Menace" and then Samurai culture, not African culture. Plus, both black and white actors played Klingons. In other words, your friend has no idea what she's talking about.

RAMA

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Klingons are violent by nature. Ferengi are greedy by nature...

If you group human beings by their backgrounds and make the same kinds of broad statements about them, you're being bigoted. Same quality of thinking that Trek puts into "alien races."

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

I've always looked at the races on Trek as taking different facets of humanity and then exploring them by defining them as "Other." In the real world, there are humans who are soldiers/warriors (Klingons/Jem'Hadar), who are greedy and profit-driven (Ferengi), who are very spiritual and have suffered greatly (Bajorans), who are very logical and science-driven (Vulcans), etc., etc. Picard once said in a later episode of Trek, "We humans tend to take a very balance approach to life, never too much, never too little." The humans of Trek had to be the "balanced" species so the contrast with other species could be heightened. Other Trek species were really a metaphor for different aspects of humanity. At least that's what I always thought.

Aside from the very unfortunate "Code of Honor" episode, I can't see how you can call TNG racist - or any other Trek series for that matter. From TOS on, Trek has been pretty inclusive with the casting of non-white actors in prominent "hero" roles. TOS had a black woman and an Asian man, TNG had several black actors, as did DS9, and VOY had a black actor, a Native American, a Hispanic, and an Asian.

 

[GeorgeKirk]

The "African blind man cliche", huh? Sounds a lot like the the "Mexican accountant", "Australian stock broker" or "Japanese leprechaun" cliches in that it DOESN'T EXIST.