• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Wait: how DID the Equinox get that far?

I think Ransom discovered that he can get Anti-Matter fuel from the corpses of the Space Alien that he accidentally killed, then he slowly refined the efficiency in processing the dead corpse for said fuel and got faster and more efficient to the point that he can output enough energy and even get to higher levels of warp based on whatever science & research he gained on from said corpse.

Back to the future three.

Powerful fuel takes a powerful toll on the ship.

Too powerful and it goes boom.

Like in the steam engine in Back to the Future III.

(Yes, yes, they built a new intermix chamber, which is the point, if every time they increased the potency of the corpse fuel, they had to redesign and rebuild the engine, it must have got to the point that its easier to ignore further refinements on the fuel, so they don't have to spend another year rebuilding the engine.)

How Janway found the Ankari?

A standard handshake between the ships computers, should have seen the transfers of each others logs to the other's possession. Ransom may have lied about what happened in Ankari space, but from a navigational point of view, lying about the existence of, or the names of planets is a good way to get caught telling a lie.

Remember Ransom said making a deal with the Borg sounded like Treason? So he had read her logs, and Janeway must have read his.

Smart people hide a lie between two truths.
 
Last edited:
(Yes, yes, they built a new intermix chamber, which is the point, if every time they increased the potency of the corpse fuel, they had to redesign and rebuild the engine, it must have got to the point that its easier to ignore further refinements on the fuel, so they don't have to spend another year rebuilding the engine.)
They're probably figuring things out as they go along so the Intermix chamber was probably only in "ProtoType" stages and not ready for consistent use or needed a new version.
 
New theory.

That ten light year jump away from space dolphin space...

What if it took them years to get back to Dolphin Space because they didn't have enough corpse fuel to ford the trip at unusually high warp.
 
(Yes, yes, they built a new intermix chamber, which is the point, if every time they increased the potency of the corpse fuel, they had to redesign and rebuild the engine, it must have got to the point that its easier to ignore further refinements on the fuel, so they don't have to spend another year rebuilding the engine.)

Or the modifications would have entailed not changing the engine at all... just the intermix chamber would have been modified on the go. Base design would have been more or less sound, so it would be like ADDING stuff to pre-existing design to make it more efficient.
Making a new intermix chamber every single time would be a daunting task for the Equinox due to replicators not being available... although, they'd probably still have the ability to emulate replication with other tools manually (by converting existing hw into base elements and recombining them into new ones)... in which case, minor adjustments with each fuel refinement would have occurred.

A bigger question would be: 'how did the Equniox withstand travel at such high Warp velocities' when it wasn't designed for those speeds? At maximum, the Nova class was capable of Warp 6 (per Janeway's description).
Sure, a refit with faster engines (more capable Warp coils) and stronger structural integrity would have done the trick to make it capable of say Warp 9.9 at some point in the future, but to produce that kind of SIF effect, you'd also need stronger power generation.. and in its weakened state, I don't see that happening.

The best way I could describe it is that the corpse produced 'super-charged anti-matter' which resulted in much higher power output in the Warp core... but again, if the engines weren't designed to operate at those levels... shouldn't the ship basically tear itself apart?
Voyager was able to last 9.5 seconds in that Kes' telekinetic push which pushed them 9.5 thousand lightyears closer to the AQ... but that was a more extreme burst (and the ship was at the brink of coming apart).
And Warp 9.75 (not 9.975)for Voyager was sustainable for about 12-24 hrs.

Ransom said the Equinox pushed through 10 000 Ly's in less than a week... which would imply a speed of Warp 9.95 (or about 1882.56 Ly's per day).

If the Equinox was designed to max out at Warp 6, could the SIF and engines be supercharged enough to withstand Warp 9.95 for 5 and a half to 6 days?

A standard handshake between the ships computers, should have seen the transfers of each others logs to the other's possession. Ransom may have lied about what happened in Ankari space, but from a navigational point of view, lying about the existence of, or the names of planets is a good way to get caught telling a lie.

Remember Ransom said making a deal with the Borg sounded like Treason? So he had read her logs, and Janeway must have read his.

Smart people hide a lie between two truths.

I agree that should be the standard 'greeting' between two SF ships... automatic log/data exchange... but as we saw, this doesn't happen.
Transfer of ships logs and crew reports can be initiated manually (unless the ship is likely in automation mode, in which case, it could be done as you suggest) - though SF ships should be able to fly themselves completely independent of the crew if need be (if pre-programmed to do this).
 
If the Equinox was designed to max out at Warp 6, could the SIF and engines be supercharged enough to withstand Warp 9.95 for 5 and a half to 6 days?

It may be a short-range vessel, but as a science ship it probably is built to withstand a plethora of high-energy space phenomena, including a higher factor warp field. It had multiple rough rides which didn't do structural integrity any favors, and just might have failed to reach the Alpha Quadrant in one piece despite having acquired the necessary propellant along the way.
 
Structural integrity indeed seems to be the one problem when alien forces or engineering ingenuity is used to ramp up power generation and speed hundredfold, millionfold, or indeed infinityfold, as in "Threshold". But the extra integrity needed is not in a particularly severe or linear relationship to the speed increase: basic starships would appear capable of traveling thousands of times faster than intended, and a tiny bit of extra work would take care of the minor rattling and buckling when the speed is ramped to googolzillion times the recommended max.

The Nova class was cleared for warp 8 on paper, much like Kirk's ship, as per initial dialogue. Warp 6 seemed to be what all the damage limited the poor Equinox to. See

Janeway: "This is a Nova class science vessel, designed for short term research missions. Minimal weapons. It can't even go faster than warp eight."

vs. the later

Janeway: "Without his enhanced drive, his ship's only capable of warp six."
.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Structural integrity indeed seems to be the one problem when alien forces or engineering ingenuity is used to ramp up power generation and speed hundredfold, millionfold, or indeed infinityfold, as in "Threshold". But the extra integrity needed is not in a particularly severe or linear relationship to the speed increase: basic starships would appear capable of traveling thousands of times faster than intended, and a tiny bit of extra work would take care of the minor rattling and buckling when the speed is ramped to googolzillion times the recommended max.

The Nova class was cleared for warp 8 on paper, much like Kirk's ship, as per initial dialogue. Warp 6 seemed to be what all the damage limited the poor Equinox to. See



vs. the later

.

Timo Saloniemi

I suspect that Warp 8 vs Warp 6 was Janeway talking about Equinox's maximum sustainable speed in an undamaged state vd the damaged one.
In damaged state, its Warp capability probably sufferred and reduced it to a maximum of Warp 6.

As you noted, SF ships do seem capable of reaching massive speeds if SIF is taken cared of, but the approach may not be so cut and dry.
Different speeds will result in different pressures to occur across the ship's hull geometry.
For 'infinite velocity' TW version, that happened just before crossing the threshold at around 9.9 on the shuttle when the fuselage became faster than the nacelles and required a depolarization matrix around the fuselage to fix.

I wonder if this approach could be used to effectively increase Voyager's maximum sustainable cruise velocity.
Essentially not needing to achieve TW itself, but rather travel at slower (but still much faster) speeds compared to most ships in the galaxy.... allowing them to go from one end to the other in say a week.

For Quantum Slipstream version 1, the quantum stresses didn't allow VOY to remain in QS for longer than 1 hour (and crossing 300 Ly's in that time) initially.
For Quantum Slipstream version 2, the quantum stresses were no longer an issue (possibly a SIF fix to compensate for the quantum stresses)... but it required benamite crystals and the speed at which the slipstream was forming was too fast for the computer to calculate and compensate which allowed for phase variance of 0.4 to arise that destroyed the ship in the original timeline - it WAS effectively 10 000 Ly's per minute - far more than UFP computers would be usually accustomed to.

So, not everything is about the SIF.
 
Maybe the alien tadpoles they were murdering for fuel wasn't the first race the Equinox screwed over for personal gain. Keep in mind that Ransom lies to Janeway multiple times, and the race that supposedly killed half his crew at the start of their journey is one Voyager has never heard of. Maybe that race only killed half the Equinox after the Equinox did something to them first, for the sake of getting home quicker.
 
It's certainly possible. I don't think their descent into depravity could be as sharp as presented in the episode. You're right that Ransom and the rest of the crew are completely unreliable narrators.

It's easy to look at potential shortcuts that Janeway passed up and see that Equinox likely faced similar situations but took a different course, for example the Sikarians or the Barzan wormhole.

I think Equinox probably had a different starting point than Voyager. At the time the Caretaker was still apparently returning ships to their origin point, but it's possible he was getting sloppy, or even that the Equinox crew tried to use the array themselves, but ended up only half way home, albeit luckily skipping Borg space. This would explain why their first couple of years are so different.
 
Did the Caretaker actually return ships to their origin points? Surely legends would be fostered about the alien kidnapper on the other side of the galaxy who poked and prodded crews for reasons unknown before returning to them from whence they came. Or did he just collect species who felt so embarrased and ashamed by the whole affair they would keep silent over what happened? It's likely all the ships didn't survive the return trip. Once in a while a Starfleet vessel will discover debris from one such ship and chalk it up to warp core failure when there are no signs of weapons attack.
 
There doesn't seem to be any evidence that the Caretaker would ever have sent anybody back, now is there?

In "Caretaker", our heroes optimistically speculate he has the capacity to do so, and when they confront him, they discover this to be true. They still get no evidence that the capacity would ever have seen any use.

In "The Voyager Conspiracy", Seven claims that an abducted Cardassian ship suddenly (and exceptionally!) disappeared from the vicinity of the Array, and further insists that the ship was sent back to Alpha. Neither claim is ever confirmed, though, and most of what Seven says is either a misinterpretation or an outright manipulative lie.

On the other hand, there's nothing to prove the Caretaker didn't send at least some ships back. He apparently started abducting "months" prior to the pilot episode, and Neelix is aware of some "fifty" abductees. But his health has been degrading the whole time; perhaps the first few abductees were luckier than the rest, and didn't stretch their luck back home by telling tall stories?

Timo Saloniemi
 
On the other hand, there's nothing to prove the Caretaker didn't send at least some ships back.

Presumably any Federation or Klingon ship, would have reported the event through their chain and it would have been sent round to captains as a "things to watch out for" bulletin.

Perhaps the caretaker took the ship, but the transport knocked everyone out / wiped memories (ala Clues), at least earlier in the process.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top